There has been a great deal of thinking and writing about why deterrence is difficult in cyberspace. Attacks can be masked, or routed through another country’s networks. And even if you know for sure the attack came from a computer in country X, you can't be sure the government was behind it. All of this creates the attribution problem: It's hard to deter if you can't punish, and you can't punish without knowing who is behind an attack. Moreover, much of the cyber activity is espionage, and it's hard to imagine a government threatening military action for the theft of data.
China Defense Daily lays out some of the reasons why Chinese experts think deterrence is hard, or to be more specific, why the U.S. military will have difficulty achieving its deterrence aims. First, though, the article addresses all the “advantages” the United States brings to the table: resources (10 of the world’s 13 root servers are in the United States); technology (operating systems, databases, processors, microchips, network switching, and other core technology are all “in the hands of American companies”); power (there is a large gap between the United States and others in the development of weapons, investment, the training of talent, and the scale of armed forces).
Despite these strengths, the article sees the U.S. as being unable to secure its networks. The announcement of the Defense Department’s Strategy for Operating in Cyberspace, in the Chinese view, encouraged other countries to develop their own offensive capabilities. Attribution is hard, and providing proof of who is behind an attack that would convince others is still extremely difficult. Detection and monitoring capabilities in cyberspace are underdeveloped, so it's a real question whether the U.S. military can detect, provide warning of, and deter an attack before it happens. Finally, if the United States decides to retaliate through offensive cyber attacks, it can have no certainty about the outcomes. The impacts on networks are often limited and can be quickly recovered from.
U.S. intelligence officials are going to AP and The Wall Street Journal and telling them they have identified the specific Chinese groups behind attacks on Google, RSA, and other companies in an attempt to diminish Chinese confidence that they can remain hidden and, thus, strengthen deterrence. Going further down the hall of mirrors, it may be that the purpose of the article in China Defense Daily is to undermine these U.S. efforts. Can Washington believe that it has achieved a credible deterrent if the potential adversary keeps saying it's not possible?
What deterrence is in cyberspace and how it is achieved is exactly the type of discussion the United States needs to be having with China. This article’s use of deterrence (威慑, wei she) is reflective of the Chinese definition, which can be more expansive and normative than the American use, encompassing threat or menace. As far as I can tell, cyber security discussions have only (officially) been happening once a year at the U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue.
Cyberspaces are of course a strategic and economic issue, so it makes sense to have a whole government approach. Still, given the distance between Washington and Beijing, and the speed at which the issue is developing, the Pentagon and the People's Liberation Army should be speaking as frequently, and in as many fora, as possible.
Adam Segal is the Ira A. Lipman Senior Fellow for Counterterrorism and National Security Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. He blogs at Asia Unbound, where this piece originally appeared. Follow him on Twitter @adschina.








Leonard R.
@Segal: “Attribution is hard, and providing proof of who is behind an attack that would convince others is still extremely difficult…if the United States decides to retaliate through offensive cyber attacks, it can have no certainty about the outcomes. The impacts on networks are often limited and can be quickly recovered from.”
–
This is ‘impunity’ per se. The PLA is in effect telling the US,
“You can’t catch me,”.
It’s a military problem. The Pentagon has wisely not limited any responses to
offensive cyber-attacks. It has kept open the option of military responses beyond cyber-attacks. And that being the case, why exactly should the US be speaking to the CCP or the PLA about this? It won’t be talking to the hackers. The CCP probably does not even have control of the hacks.
So what exactly is there to talk about? What would the results of such talks be?
The PLA is hacking the US Government. It’s hacking US universities and
corporation. It’s hacking NGO’s.
Why talk to them about it? Retaliate with appropriate force and stop talking.
applesauce
@Leonard R
that’s the problem, you cant just retaliate and stop talking. if you had actually read the article you would have seen that its very difficult to narrow down a country and nearly impossible to prove that the countries government ordered the attack. as such, suppose you retaliate against china and it turns out some hackers in Ukraine was only routing through china then what? or maybe some patriotic hackers without consent from the government decided to hack IBM. physical retaliation will lead to ww3 and no one wants that without being sure and if you think america isnt already doing its own cyber attacks on other nations then you are truly naive.
Leonard R.
@Applesauce: I read the article and I quoted it.
Attribution is not necessary. Start with the question cui bono?
After you know who benefits – retaliate. Make sure they will never benefit from it again.
Talking with people who continually burglarize your home & threaten your family is not advisable. It’s much better to stop them from ever burglarizing anyone’s home again.
applesauce
@Leonard R
oh really just attack anyone who benefits without proof they had any part in it? i couldnt think of a quicker way to ww3 if i tried. i thought america was about innocent until proven guilty, you on the other hand woulda had alot in common with stalin. if china hacks boeing shutting down their operations for a day, that would benefit airbus shall we now retaliate against the EU? Iran supposedly hack the latest stealth UAV, the resultant intelligence will make its way to china, russia, even allies of america, you are asking for america to declare war against the world for the actions of one nation.
as for your analogy, its more like burning down your neighbor’s house after you get rob just because you dont like him. you have no proof he robbed you
SubIconoclast
… and “cui bono” if the US responds to a perceived attacker, causing harm to someone else’s competition? The naive approach to foreign policy and/or defense – quite popular in special interest circles for its inherent vulnerability to manipulation – does little to advance a nation’s interests.
Proof is necessary to avoid serving as the unwitting puppet of tricksters. It doesn’t necessarily need to convince others, but widely-convincing proof also helps reduce political costs associated with retaliatory action.
DownRedChina
@Leonard:
I agree. How long have we been trying to talk and for how much longer? China doesn’t understand laws so talk doesn’t work. China uses jungle laws.
Concrete actions are what needed. Here are some of the examples:
kick them out of WTO and declare China is a hostile foreign country.
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
USA is the king of jungle laws, it is a title and fact recognized by the world. Even The Diplomat has an article that attributes to it.
WTO and UN are international institutions, not the sock puppets of the USA, even though the USA is ignorant and arrogant enough to think that they are.
WTO and UN exercise democracy, what you are suggesting contravenes democracy, a behaviour of dictatorial imperialism.
DownRedChina
@John Chan: “WTO and UN exercise democracy, what you are suggesting contravenes democracy, a behaviour of dictatorial imperialism.”
Carrot policy doesn’t work with CCP. It’s time for stick.
“USA is the king of jungle laws, it is a title and fact recognized by the world. Even The Diplomat has an article that attributes to it.”
Provide facts/links.
DownRedChina
Provide just one case Vietnamese fishermen killed anyone. Vietnamese authority provided illegal Chinese fishermen food and fuel after arrest. The Chinese did the opposite.
“S Koreans are too aggressive and a guard got kill in a shuffle.” It was clearly a intentional murder – not in a shuffle like you described.
Didn’t Vietnam rescue Cambodia from Pol Pot which was planted by your CCP masters? Your CCP masters got Cambodian blood on their hands.
Tibet people are setting themselves on fire as we speak. Xinjiang and inner Mongolia people aren’t happy as we speak. They should have their lands back.
Who give China the rights to arrest Vietnam/Phillipines/Japan/SKorea fishing inside their EEZ?
Fishing ban during fish breeding season should be issued by all nations.
John Chan
@DownRedChina,
It seems China law enforcers enforce laws with proper manners, therefore no undue violence occurred under their watch; on the other hand the behaviour of the S. Korean law enforcers seems much to be desired, therefore unnecessary accident happened.
Glorifying Vietnam’s invasion of its smaller neighbour is a wrong thing to do. It is really shameless how you distorted the facts.
It is China’s sovereignty gives China’s law enforcers to arrest and expel illegal fishing and other activities from China’s territory.
Fabricating lies thru the thin air to smear others is a standard practice taught in the Dick Cheney School of Darth Vader, it seems you are a graduated of that school.
DownRedChina, which nation do you come from, fabricating lies about China without revealing yourself is cowardice and only proves you are not credible.
DownRedChina
@John Chan:
“It seems China law enforcers enforce laws with proper manners, therefore no undue violence occurred under their watch”
They act like pirates at high sea. You called killed/robbed fish catch/demanded ransom are proper manners. That’s right. proper manners by a liar Chinese like you.
spewing trash is what you do best. It understood that CCP injected too much trash into your head. Hard to take it out, isn’t it?
FYI, I don’t agree with some of the things Dick Cheney did but as a person he is much more decent than your corrupted CCP masters.
yang zi
Minions,
don’t underestimate US. its brouhaha about China’s cyber attacks are just the cover for US’s cyber warfare development. US is a skilled hand in manipulating public opinions. Imagine the backlash if US just went ahead developed cyber warfare technology.
Now it seems US is defending and responding. how innocent.
John Chan
Americans are most manipulated people in the world, to the sad state that they are totally disregard that they are exploited, and indifferent to the suffering of their compatriots, but supporting the neo-con’s world destructive hegemony with their last breathe.
Watcher
Look who is talking!!!
The rest of the world would say that title belongs to China – and no I am not American.
John Chan
@Watcher,
It is an American who said “Americans are the most manipulated people.”
yang zi
BTW, Who ever ordered the assassination of Iranian scientist are cowards and morality bankrupt.
It is like killing Einstein because Truman dropped the bomb. If these cowards have any courage, just kill the Iranian president, or the head mullah, whatever his name is.
It would be OK if you drop some bombs in the room where head mullahs are having a meeting. it is not OK to assassinate a scientist. How do you know this scientist was not forced to work on the project?
ex-AWACr
Wrong, its like killing Robert Oppenheimer before the bomb was built.
yang zi
Right, good point.
James
Since cowards and morally bankrupt people are contemptible then are those people who kill political prisoners in Communist China and harvest their organs also cowards and morally bankrupt? How about the local Party Officials who seize land from the people in the name of individual profit? Are they too cowards and morally bankrupt? Or what to say of the company one keeps? Is someone who is friendly with Pyongyang cowardly and morally bankrupt because they support the killing and starvation of The North Korean People? And what of the repression and killing of The Falun Gong? Would it not be cowardly and morally bankrupt people who would choose to imprison and kill their members for meditating in public in numbers that so alarmed the cadres that the only solution was to brutally repress and imprison their members in the Chinese Gulag? Is the conduct in The Western Provinces also cowardly and morally bankrupt through the immigration of Han Chinese at the expense and repression of the local Turkic Peoples? And what of Tibet? One can certainly call Beijing’s policy towards The Dali Lama, Tibet and The Tibetan People also cowardly and morally bankrupt. . .
yang zi
So what is your point ? I say your are a fool, you say I a fool. Sure, I am a fool. But it doesn’t mean you are not a fool. Get it?
John Chan
@James,
Yes, those bad deeds you mentioned are morally bankrupted and cowardice; they are investigated and punished in China. Is the USA going to do the right thing as China did?
Falun Gong is a cult, they are only suppressed but not killed, you are dishonest in distorting the fact to smear China.
North Korea is an independent nation; all nations in world have the same responsibility toward the demise of the North Koreans, not just China alone. Why doesn’t you blame South Korean and the USA? You are prejudice against China.
The Dali Lama is a traitor and proxy of the Westpac imperialist. China has religion freedom; organizations that are aim to subvert China and undermine China’s national integrity in the name of religion must be removed, it is the norm of the world.
Cults are harmful and destructive to the society and people, they must be eradicated, you muddle cults with religion is sinful with insidious intent.
yang zi
Yes, I’ve attended Falun Gong Master Li’s lecture, he claimed Jesus is a Buddha below his level.
US and the Christian world public doesn’t know this, if they do, they will treat Falun Gong even worse.
When you think of it, Dalai Lama is a cult leader too. who in their right mind claiming to be a living Buddha?
ex-AWACr
‘Attribution is hard, and providing proof of who is behind an attack that would convince others is still extremely difficult’
That blade cuts both ways in that it applies to all cyber attacks, including retaliatory ones. See todays Saudi-Israeli credit card hacks. Neither government has admitted involvement or attempted to ‘prove’ the other was involved. Just like neither the US nor Israeli governments have admitted responsibility for Stuxnet, nor have the Iranins tried to ‘prove’ otherwise. They made a lot of bombastic claims, but they do that all the time.
yang zi
How about FBI investigation of Indians hacking into document of US-China economic commission ? Everybody does this and Chinese severs are used as staging host because they are too many unsecured servers
Girish
Well that is true. The source of attack cannot be considered as origin of cyber attack. In-fact only foolish perform cyber attacks from their own source which can end up exposing them-self. All serious attacks on governments by serious attackers are only routed from other countries.
Leonard R.
@girish: “The source of attack cannot be considered as origin of cyber attack. In-fact only foolish perform cyber attacks from their own source which can end up exposing them-self.”
–
This is similar to the “No criminal could possibly be that stupid,” defense in court.
And that argument is usually a losing one. Criminals often are very stupid. Every day stupid criminals commit stupid crimes. And they get caught.
To continue this line of reasoning further, the PLA has behaved very stupidly several times in the our recent past. Maybe it is possible that the organization behind the hackers is in fact – rather stupid. After all, unlike Russians or Indians, they keep getting caught. Don’t they?
But if we assume girish is correct for a moment and that the source of an attack should disqualify from being a suspect, maybe the US should simply ask, cui bono?
And maybe it respond against the nation that benefits from the hack,
without regard to what the ostensible source of the attack was.
ex-AWACr
But has the US government accused the Indian government of involvement?
yang zi
according to this, seems US does accuse India, unofficially.
http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/us-investigating-indian-hacking-group-for-stealing-us-china-commission-data.html
DownRedChina
Let’s take a look at the big picture. The challenges are huge. It is China’s culture to steal/cheat/copy/counterfeit. They have no respect for international laws. They teach their children from the very young age that it’s OK to cheat/steal to get ahead in life. I’d like to quote from the article
“Law Not War in the South China Sea” from author John Hemmings. He wrote “Years of school-taught nationalism has complicated efforts to find a peaceful resolution to the South China Sea dispute. Time to try the legal route.” Chinese children have been brainwashed all their life. It’s very difficult for them to integrate into civilized world when they grow up. That’s why there are so many problems regarding China (IP theft, Counterfeit products, land sea grabbing ambitions and so on and so forth) They often turn to violence if they don’t get their ways (killed South Korean officer when they got caught fishing in SK’s water). CCP is the root of all.
yang zi
I have to agree with you on some of your points. is that Vietnamese fisherman are very easy, they don’t fight against arrest.
S. Korean fishing thing is a bone head move by China, marking EEZs with S. Korea, prevented Chinese fishermen from their traditional fishing ground. S Koreans are too aggressive and a guard got kill in a shuffle.
Back to SCS, I am glad to see ASEAN and China is meeting in Beijing. one thing came out is everybody should be able to fishing in SCS regardless EEZs. I like this, hopefully China will not arrest Vietnamese fishermen and Vietnam will issue a fishing ban during fish breeding season.
I really hope Vietnam can face its past, distribute its SCS oil revenue to Cambodia and Chams. after all, those resources supposed to belong to them.
DownRedChina
Provide just one case Vietnamese fishermen killed anyone. Vietnamese authority provided illegal Chinese fishermen food and fuel after arrest. The Chinese did the opposite.
“S Koreans are too aggressive and a guard got kill in a shuffle.” It was clearly a intentional murder – not in a shuffle like you described.
Didn’t Vietnam rescue Cambodia from Pol Pot which was planted by your CCP masters? Your CCP masters got Cambodian blood on their hands.
Tibet people are setting themselves on fire as we speak. Xinjiang and inner Mongolia people aren’t happy as we speak. They should have their lands back.
Who give China the rights to arrest Vietnam/Phillipines/Japan/SKorea fishing inside their EEZ?
Fishing ban during fish breeding season should be issued by all nations.
mok tuk
Furthermore, when Chinese come out of China, suddenly realized that world are looking down, laughing at brainwashing education systems in China, North Korea, understandably, it’s important to build new generation, but teaching the real history is more constructive than fabricated history, that whole history start from great China!!!, And take good look at USA,Canada, Western countries, Japan, Korea, Germany, France, Italy, UK, Taiwan, in democratic society, they do not hesitate condemning own mistakes, also public has full viewing, in case of big dispute in the wide open concept, free opinion and free election, that is power of democracy, real freedom society, And if any conflict happening between democratic states and communist states, that free spirited will is much stronger than brain-washed army!
Major Lowen Gil Marquez, Phil Army
Thou shall not trust the mainland china in giving or sharing your product secret because in the long run they will counterfeit and clone your top secret assets and will lead to your shameful economic defeat, look at some prominent car manufacturing they were the victim of Chinese counterfeiting, we must learn the history, on cyberwar the Chinese still getting more data, the more we discuss the more the got an IDEA. . . think. . .