In a surprise move, NATO has reportedly offered to share its ballistic missile defence (BMD) technology with India. The tentative proposal, premised on the acknowledgement of the ‘commonality of threats’ faced by NATO and India, includes the sharing of BMD technology as well as the possibility of ‘training together.’ There has yet to be any official response to this offer, but its acceptance would make India the only non-NATO ally, apart from Russia, in the alliance.
Russia’s reservations on this issue are well known, and it’s most likely that India, too, won’t be jumping at the bit. This could be attributed to at least three factors.
One, as a non-aligned country during the Cold War years, India maintained its distance from bloc politics. Though the international landscape has changed drastically since then, India has retained its policy of not entering into an alliance with any country, though New Delhi does have strategic partnerships with a record number of nations today. While warming to the United States considerably in the last half decade, India is still unlikely to enter into any arrangement that might be perceived as compromising its sovereign autonomy. It may be recalled, after all, that India hasn’t formally accepted the Proliferation Security Initiative because it’s a US-led initiative. A US-led BMD architecture, then, would also be viewed from the same perspective.
Second, while it’s true that India has been working on the indigenous development of BMD technology, and has conducted four successful interceptions since 2006, there has been no shared commonality of threats with NATO. As premised on the US missile threat assessment, threats to NATO are believed to arise from missile proliferation by problem states. BMD is seen as necessary to defend against limited ballistic missile attacks involving ‘up to a few tens of ballistic missiles.’ The United States and NATO have been categorical in assuring Russia and China that the BMD isn’t designed to degrade their nuclear deterrent.
For India, the nature of the missile threat is quite different—it arises from its nuclearized neighbourhood. Both China and Pakistan have established nuclear and missile arsenals of substantive quality and quantity. In fact, both have spent the last decade enhancing their missile capabilities in terms of inventory build-up, range, accuracy, survivability, and reliability. In addition, China has invested in its own BMD and countermeasures technology. Therefore, the threats that the Indian BMD will be required to counter are very different from those of NATO, and there’s no clarity over whether NATO would be able to accommodate these threat perceptions.
Third, while the Indian research and development establishment is euphoric over the technological success of four interceptions, two endoatmospheric and two exoatmospheric, the impact of BMD on strategic stability has yet to be completely fathomed. India’s nuclear doctrine is based on deterrence by punishment, which essentially implies the communication of the threat that any use of nuclear weapons would result in assured retaliation designed to cause ‘unacceptable damage.’ Eschewing nuclear war fighting, India has largely been against deterrence by denial and has largely accepted the classical logic of nuclear deterrence that it can best be maintained through the suggestion of mutual vulnerability, which was also seen as best for strategic stability.
But the acquisition of BMD by China upsets the equation. India can’t hope to establish deterrence stability with China’s BMD without having a similar capability of its own. This, in turn, impinges on its deterrence relationship with Pakistan. The latter, meanwhile, doesn’t have the scientific and technological wherewithal to develop a BMD of its own, and is most likely to either increase its missile inventory and equip the missiles with countermeasures (acquired from China) or enter into some type of an acquisition or BMD-sharing arrangement with some of its allies, most notably China.
BMD, therefore, has the potential to upset the deterrence stability in the two nuclear dyads of the region. In fact, the deployment of BMD will impel the adversary toward the development and deployment of countermeasures or advanced offensive capabilities against BMD. This will push the countries into an offence-defence spiral, leading to an arms race not just in earth-based systems, but also in space-based ISR and navigation capabilities as they try to increase the accuracy of their missiles, along with their manoeuvrability, in terminal stages to avoid interception. The automatic tendency, then, will be to develop ASAT capabilities and resort to pre-emption to degrade the space-based assets of the adversary. It therefore appears likely that uncertainties and insecurities will only grow rather than decrease with availability of BMD in all three countries.
As India grapples with finding the best response to its missile threats, the NATO offer to share the ‘technology of discovering and intercepting missiles’ is an interesting development. It comes at a time when the Indian BMD technology trajectory seems to be on an upswing, when the state of Pakistan’s stability is on a downswing, and ambiguities on China’s intentions are on the rise. Is there a deeper message in this offer? India must undertake a careful assessment of all dimensions.








Brad
Certainly you cannot expect India to not undertake BMD when Russia and China are. You’re argument goes for both sides here.
Pakistan probably will eventually join China in some type of similar alliance but as long as the two sides maintain some level of parity in the size and advancement of their BMD technolody it will have the same detering affect as nuclear weapons themselves have.
Frank
India is facing missile threats from all sides.
West and North are land based short range missile which will only have less than 10 min. warning.
At the South and East front, there are large area of ocean can be populated with submarines.
The best defense of India is to settle the border issues with all neighbors.
India cannot afford a war with both nuclear neighbors at the same time.
Sam
Nobody can afford a war. Bur India is readying for it if it is thrust upon it.
You have to look one country past the neighbors to find Russia, Vietnam, Japan, the Philippines, Taiwan and the Indian, Japanese and US fleets. And NATO would like to help India in every way as do mainland Europe, Japan and Britain.
Looking at China and Pakistan you see maybe… what South Korea? Sounds like China and Pakistan need to make peace with their neighbors more than India does. Large areas of ocean are already populated by submarines from Russia, NATO, India and the US. New Chinese ones will quickly meet a watery grave. Good luck with that.
John Chan
@Sam:
I heard China has developed new system of AIP for their submarines; it makes China’s submarine so quiet that their sonar operators need earplugs when a Virginia class comes within their torpedo range.
Sam
That’s because their torpedo range is what 5 meters?
Sam
Plus we can always wait another week till they come up to burp you know. It is called the Indian Ocean for a reason.
John Chan
@Sam:
You are disappointing; please try harder so you won’t make fool of yourself in the public.
Frank
In 1962, China was not as friendly as today to Japan, Russia, NATO, or USA.
And yet, all these countries watched China kicked butts of Indians.
Nobody will help India when China is kick your butt again.
Sam
“And yet, all these countries watched China kicked butts of Indians.
Nobody will help India when China is kick your butt again.”
Here you go being stupid again Frank. Let us ignore the crappy English grammar and phrasebook usage.
In 1965 when India liberated Bangladesh, China was planning to help Pakistan and attack India when the USA reminded China of the mutual defense pact between the Soviets and India. China, shi**ing in its pants and quite alarmed, quietly stood aside and let the Bangladesh independence war come to a successful conclusion. Remind yourself why this happened every time you decide to indulge your fantasies and wet dreams and get a grip on reality. That treaty still exists with the Russians and new ones are being signed everyday with others.
The USA is a $14 trillion economy and the $3 trillion that China has bought to keep its currency undervalued needs to be replenished so that it continue selling its products outside China which is why it is buying US bonds at a near zero interest rate, not the sign of a country asking for loans desperately like you think the US is. For proof you only need look at the fact that the debt downgrade by S&P (an American company headed by an Indian at the time of the downgrade) did absolutely nothing to change the interest rate which is at historic lows an d the USA is having no trouble selling its bonds on the world market with nary a hiccup in the rate sought.
a_canadian_observer
@sam: You’re very knowledgible, but you’re spelling out (i.e. educating them) too much. Let them have some wet dreams to sooth their inferior complex once in a while, would you?
John Chan
@Sam:
Chinese said “fallen from saddle, grab a fist of sand,” i.e. in order to cover his embarrassment a fallen cowboy excuses his clumsiness by saying he just want to grab some sand, it is Ah-Q spirit as China labeled this kind of mentality.
The Ah-Q spirit made you created USA interference story in Bangladesh incident to cover USA’s failed to act in 1962. How shameless you are by claiming USSR’s work as USA’s glory? Have you forgotten USSR was USA’s eternal enemy? Both you were in a live and death struggle then?
USA is the biggest sucker in the world, why does USA need to pay interest to use its own money that it can print thru the thin air? And you are still smart-assing that USA can continue to pay interest to use its own money. Your logic and IQ are beyond anyone can comprehend, the only thing I can conclude is that you are an Ah-Q.
Sam
Correction N Korea.
Sam
@a_canadian_observer
You are right. I keep going back to the movie Total Recall I think it was, when the guy in the mutant’s stomach says “open your mind! open your minnnnd!”
I can hope, can’t I? These yokels need serious help it looks like.
Sam
@John Chan
“Chinese said “fallen from saddle, grab a fist of sand,” i.e. in order to cover his embarrassment a fallen cowboy excuses his clumsiness by saying he just want to grab some sand, it is Ah-Q spirit as China labeled this kind of mentality.
The Ah-Q spirit made you created USA interference story in Bangladesh incident to cover USA’s failed to act in 1962. How shameless you are by claiming USSR’s work as USA’s glory? Have you forgotten USSR was USA’s eternal enemy? Both you were in a live and death struggle then?
USA is the biggest sucker in the world, why does USA need to pay interest to use its own money that it can print thru the thin air? And you are still smart-assing that USA can continue to pay interest to use its own money. Your logic and IQ are beyond anyone can comprehend, the only thing I can conclude is that you are an Ah-Q.”
When you have decided what you are trying to say and can say it in English like everybody else I will be happy to respond.
American cowboys tend not to fall off their saddles to the extent that they need a saying to describe (and cover up) their ineptitude like Chinese cowboys seem to need to do. Sorry, that is the best I can offer you. Maybe if you improved your riding skills that saying may not be needed as much. Then again you need to improve so many skills starting with writing in English that it may take awhile to get to riding skills. Life is a bitch and then you die.
John Chan
@Sam:
It is understandable that people like you will not want to learn anything from other culture due to your close-mindedness. I am here doing my best to present Chinese point of view on world events using my second language, so that I hope I can promote peace and prosperity by removing misunderstanding between the westerners and Chinese.
Since you do not know Chinese and have no interest to learn about China, what makes you keep on yapping bigotry troll against China that is detrimental to the world peace and prosperity? Why do you have to waste your native language on things that are destructive?
a_canadian_observer
@Frank: Wisemen speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
- Plato
Frank
Do you have something to say?
I said something which You do not like. So you have to say something. Right?
Kung Pao
You should read more, listen more. Don’t run all over “the map” and bla bla bla.
That’s what a_canadian_obsever means !
Sam
He just said something Frankie. He said what Plato said applies to you. But he said it in English, which may be the reason why you asked that question.
Frank
I knew you are an East Indian.
East Indians write as they were blind people.
castle diminsher
agreed @frank ! at a time when only after a few years mao reds would war against the stalin red even then no one will come to first aid the broken indian ribs.. now with its neighbouring Pakistan manifolds stronger and technology wise almost equal contrasted to previous times – when 5 times weeker PAF produced 4 aces in 65 n 71- india just cant think of being a bigwig in the region n supporting its nam policies though its a cliche now even in those days who was her mentor and just to refute that status, everyone knows, is nato so blessful upon it !
Sam
“East Indians write as they were blind people.”
Frank writes like he is illiterate which he is.
Frank
East Indians are known for their talkativeness.
Most of the time, they really just are repeating after their masters.
I was always puzzled about why they have to say something that has already been said by their western masters.
Now I know that East Indians are fools, because they just have to say something all the time.
Sam
Frankie is not “talkative” coz his language skills are frozen at age 1. So he spends his days writing one sentence paragraphs like a retard.
(I mean no disrespect to those kinds of people as they have their rightful place in the world, are unfortunate in a conventional sense and are deserving of our respect and affection.)
Sam
“Now I know that East Indians are fools, because they just have to say something all the time.”
I know world leaders like Mr Hu Jintao have to “say something all the time.” So I will let our readers make the connection.
jyotirmoy chopra
according to me what west is looking in India is ”an answer to the growing china as a great power.”their apprehensions are absolutely meaningful but doesn’t match to Indian policy of independence (that include-equi proximity and equi distance)and being self reliant,India should not venture in such an endeavor where it is openly looked upon as member of a developed power block.Trading with developed country is totally different but being protected by a military block is totally different,and as of now the alliances that India is having with other developing countries will certainly get a set back after this agreement.IT WILL BE A IMAGE SHATTERING EXERCISE.
John Chan
I thought China would not have chance to entangle with European militarily anymore, but it seems NATO is looking for fight in Asia; well well oh well, I guess God is fair and it is pushing European to repay their sins they have committed in the last 200 years, and it seems the European is obliging God’s will.
duke chan
Beautiful move to contain China. India is playing bigger roles in the South China Sea, Vietnam and India just signed a contract for oil exploration that irritates China a lot. The uncle Sam is running the show called ” putting down the bad boy” in which India, Japan, Australia and NATO are co-stars and of course, China is the bad boy.
Beautiful move.
yang zi
these are all side shows. in 10 years, these people will still argue about hedges and containment of China, while China is ever more stronger. NATO is useless. any alliance is more fragile than a single country. people like to align with stronger, when China becomes that, these alliances will crumble automatically.
this will fire up @Reason
but seriously, U.S. can not be the strongest for ever, if not China, may be India or Russia’s reemergence? US is doomed! no, just kidding. US has the best strategic fundamentals, it will be a major power not matter what.
Drive by
Euro zone will break up soon. NATO is running out of money. So the main motivation is to get Indian’s money. If I were India, I would rather spend money on my own R&D, like China has been doing. The arms embargo against China is really a blessing in disguise for China. The fact that India can shop around for military equipments is ultimately detrimental to Indian’s own development.
As for irritating China, I do not think so. Euro zone may need China’s financial assistance soon, so this is really bad timing. Further more, missile defense is always more expensive than missile strike. For example, if China adds one ICBM, the NATO will need to add 2-3 interceptors at least, and many more if multiple warheads. Missile defense is really economically inviable when used against a country with strong industrial and manufacturing capabilities, like China.
Sam
“Euro zone will break up soon. NATO is running out of money. So the main motivation is to get Indian’s money. If I were India, I would rather spend money on my own R&D, like China has been doing.”
There are so many inaccuracies in that sentence it is difficult to drive by without commenting. Euro zone is a monetary union with a single currency. If a country or two drops out like the UK did from the previous ’snake’ agreement when the pound fell out of alignment or Greece and the other PIIGS/GIIPS countries might, Europe will continue to exist and defend itself.
This fond dream that everybody else except China is running out of money reflects a lack of knowledge of basic economics or common sense. You cannot have people buying Chinese products which is why China has any money in the first place and also be running out of money. Let us say they (Europe and USA and other clients of China) have a finite amount of money (and cannot create any more which flies in the face of the definition of sovereignty) and they have given it all to China. That is they have run out of money. What is China going to do tomorrow morning when it needs to export more to buy resources from the rest of the world to feed its people and make tomorrow’s lead painted toys and melamine laced baby food once all the clients have no money? Where do you think the renminbi is going to be vis a vis the dollar? 10 to a dollar? 5 to a dollar? One to one? You exhibit a spectacular lack of brains but no shortage of dumb statements. So now you have imported all this raw material from Africa right? Who will China sell it to unless you are planning on sitting on mountains of ore sitting in your docks with nowhere to go.
Missile defense is about protecting populated areas. So you ring those with interceptors. You do not add interceptors based on your enemy’s number of missiles which you cannot know accurately. You just put enough to protect an area, you add more missiles so you can reload and be ready for the next salvo. By that time your second strike capability will kick in (from outside that populated area or from bombers or submarines) and the defense turns to second strike offense. China is welcome to send ICBM’s 12,000 miles to a pasture in Germany where it may hit a cow and a rancher so it can spend a few more million to create new ones and prepare its population centers in Shanghai for a second strike.
If Europe is attacked then a number of treaties require other countries including Russia, who are not attacked, to get into the fight with their own ICBMs or Tomahawks or Prompt Global Strikes and so on. So it is neither the number of ICBMs nor interceptors that keep the peace but the number of friends and treaties that are in place that do so, unless China plans to attack everybody at the same time with enough missiles to overwhelm their BMD systems. I could win the lottery too tomorrow so anything is possible in theory.
The last part about ‘like China doing its own R&D’ is laughable because China’s R&D consists of using copying machines in Russia and other countries’ R&D facilities more than anything else and reverse engineering anything they can get their hands on. India is invited in and prefers doing everything aboveboard except for small bribes which are hopefully on the way out, but it has happened so we need to face that fact.
This is why I think all the guys above are “Frank’ by another name as they display his stunning ability to speak and write before his brain catches up with what he has been saying only to be shot down time and again. So numbers only magnify the lameness of his comment stream.
Duke Chan
I could not agree more.
Reason
love it…
harry
how come pro india China bashers are so funny? in the artical its talking about india being gangbanded by ballistic missiles not europe.
look at any emerging powers in history they all started by reverse engineering. most Chinese “copies” are superior to its original products like J-11A/B is much more superior than russian su-27&30s. not to mention China mostly use physical designs taken from other militaries and add more indiginous internal systems as they upgrade, a great example would be the development of J-10 fighter, at first China combined its experiance gained from the j-9 design with the Israeli IAI Lavi fighter, to produce J-10A with all Chinese electronics& flight control, then as the J-10 upgrade to J-10B DSI and AESA is introduced making it much more advanced to IAI Lavi, and comparable to other 4.5 gen fighters of Europe. with 30 years of experiance on canard design gained from J-10 development, China then produced the world’s first 5th gen stealth fighter in canard configuration.
india on the other hand use money to buy everything, and is even stupid enough to rent nuclear submarines for years and yet still havent produced a single worthy submarine. Even the steel india is using for it’s “indiginous” carrier is imported. not to mention it took inida 30 years to produce one of the most expensive tanks in the world the arjuns yet its performance is so crap not even the indian army is stupid enough to make any meaningful purchase.
Atleast with reverse engineering China is able to develope and refine it’s own military industry where as india is just being the ATM for other countries who are short of money.
a_canadian_observer
@sam: I could not agree more with you either. that’s why I said time and time again to Frank et. al.: wisemen speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. — Plato.
Now, here comes a guy “harry” defending china’s shameless stealing skills.
Reason
@Harry ….Cannards and stealth…? Hmmmm not convinced
You could paint a chicken black and call it a stealth chicken if you wanted…
As far as I’m aware, stealth is about reducing angles … cannards seem like pretty big, obvious angles to me that belong in 4th Gen fighters – but what do I know
It seems the J-20 is forfeiting stealth for maneuverability.
The plain fact is that for all of China’s internal R&D in planes they aint never come up against a foreign plane in combat. No one has any clue how these planes will perform and more to the point – keep performing in a high octane environment when they need to be turned around every 12hours for days at a time. And this includes the Chinese pilots.
Unlike pretty much every other decent Airforce in the world, China has never done combat simulations with competent opponents… like the US. Cus they’re Chicken! Even when Mullen was in China the PLAAF let him sit in a Russian Su30 — WTF … why not let him take a look at a J-10 or a J-11 — I’ll tell you why, cus he’s a pilot and he’d take one look at the cockpit and think, “nothing special going on here.”
You claim China’s planes are superior to Russian designs despite the fact that everyone knows that the cream of China’s fleet use Russian engines and China can’t even make a decent performing engine that can last.
Look at the F-15 for example, it has come up against pretty much every enemy combat plane out there in actual combat and has won every confrontation.
China’s planes have ZERO pedigree. Zero combat experience. So, I’d bet on India’s harriers, Su-30s or soon to be purchased T-50 or Rafeals any day over the home grown J-10/11 or J-20s.
The day I see Chinese Cadres driving around in Chinese made cars rather than their preferred Toyota 4500, Porsche Cayennes and Mercs is the day I start to take high tech out of China seriously.
I laugh out loud when I here Chinese commentators say that the J-10 is better than an F-16 … how do you know…?? J-10 can barely turn up to an air show, let alone a war!
keep kidding yourselves…
Sam
“not to mention China mostly use physical designs taken from other militaries ”
really? You admit it? And then you will write about other people being ’shameless’ and
their intent?
John Chan
@Sam:
The purpose of Euro is to lead Europe from monetary union to political union, so that Europeans can avoid killing each other as they did in WWI and WWII. Once Euro fails Europe will back to the old bad bickering habits, and pretty soon they will be at each other throats again. So please do some research first before commenting on something you don’t understand at all.
It seems English is not Sam’s native language, Sam’s writing seems lacking the fluency of native language to me, particular the 2nd sentence of the 3rd paragraph, the structure of that sentence is pretty clumsy to me; it is one of the typical problems that people using English as second language will make; does Sam mean China cannot sell her products if her clientele does not have money in that sentence? After reading the 3rd paragraph, I am sure English is not Sam’s native language. It is pretty shameless for Sam to criticize other blogger’s English while his English is much to be desired.
Sam’s ignorance in financing and economics is unbelievable. His ill wishful thinking will never happen. It seems Sam has never heard of “credit.” Credit is to let people without money to buy. Anyhow it is wasting time to discuss economics and monetary matters with financial illiterate people like Sam.
It seems Sam is totally ignorant about the accuracy of modern ICBM; the accuracy of modern ICBM is measured in meters.
I am protesting against The Diplomat by allowing Sam’s idiotic comments appear on this site; Sam is degrading the quality of comments on this site.
Sam
@John Chan
“The purpose of Euro is to lead Europe from monetary union to political union, so that Europeans can avoid killing each other as they did in WWI and WWII. Once Euro fails Europe will back to the old bad bickering habits, and pretty soon they will be at each other throats again. So please do some research first before commenting on something you don’t understand at all.”
The main adversaries in World War II were the UK, the Soviets and the USA vs Japan (which was fighting China or rather beating it to a pulp, which you carefully forgot to mention. It was called a World War not a European War for a reason), Germany and Italy, with the rest of Europe largely on the sidelines playing the role of resistance fighters. They finished fighting in 1947. The first Euro was put into circulation in 2002. Quite unrelated to Europeans fighting. The main adversaries the UK, Japan, Soviet Union and the USA have no role in the Euro and specifically asked for exemption in the case of the UK. In fact the introduction of a single currency is at the root of the current European crisis as countries like Greece and the PIIGs/GIIPS are unable to devalue their currency and grow their way out of the crisis. Likewise the demise of the Euro will not lead to any fighting anywhere, sadly for you. It will reduce its role as a reserve currency second only to the dollar, so the dollar will once again become more of a world reserve currency unlike the pitiful little renminbi. The purpose of the Euro was never meant to be political union, the free democracies of Europe are too independent for that to happen, it was hoped that political union may result if enough people benefited enough from monetary union to not protest too strongly when referendums were put forward, ‘the honey that let the medicine go down’ so to speak. But that idea was stillborn as Britain and Denmark immediately stepped out of the Euro before the first note was created and circulated.
The causes of WWII are in this article and are excerpted below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II
“The main causes of World War II were nationalistic tensions, unresolved issues, and resentments resulting from the World War I and the interwar period in Europe, plus the effects of the Great Depression in the 1930s.
The culmination of events that led to the outbreak of war are generally understood to be the 1939 invasion of Poland by Germany and the 1937 invasion of the Republic of China by the Empire of Japan.
These military aggressions were the result of decisions made by the authoritarian ruling Nazi elite in Germany and by the leadership of the Kwantung Army in Japan. World War II started after these aggressive actions were met with an official declaration of war and/or armed resistance.”
See John you have to understand your head first.
The back of the head is where the reptilian part lives, relatively unchanged from the time of the dinosaurs. The front of the head is the human part and does whatever thinking you are capable of, which is not much. So when you read something on a website like the Diplomat that you find offensive which is most of it, mainly because you do not understand it, it is in English after all, your reptilian part flies into a rage and you want to stamp it out. So the impulse travels through some concrete and other assorted junk you call your brain to the front where communications and higher human responses are possible. Here it gets stuck again because you do not know English so it struggles to come out in whatever form is required for human comprehension.
Now most people are able to form full thoughts and filter out the more dangerous and childish stuff before writing it in a post because they have fully formed thoughts by the time the stuff comes out for others to see and hear. In your case you are so exhausted by the struggle to get a fully formed thought, then translate it into Chinese or whatever you think in, then English with the help of the phrasebook in words that the phrasebook was never meant to cover and then onto the post, so it just tumbles out inchoate like so much confetti at a parade. And it is so tempting to use what other people have written about you or a fellow CCP blogger and use their words as part of your post, you do not realize how easy it is to spot it and how much it dilutes your message because it is in the middle of a sentence and bears no relation to the rest of what your sentence is trying to say. In all this confusion you just say stuff, and never consider that you may need a proof source for your assertion. It seems like so much trouble so you just wing it hoping no one will notice and you are back to the same state as before, unable to compete and stewing about it. The cycle repeats ad infinitum.
In about a week or so the words I have used in this post will be repeated in your post without the benefit of meaning that they have here just like my statements last week showed up in your post today without benefit of meaning or mature thought. More is the pity. Eventually you will learn some new English words though.
a_canadian_observer
@sam: “These military aggressions were the result of decisions made by the authoritarian ruling Nazi elite in Germany and by the leadership of the Kwantung Army in Japan.”
This is so true. We’re seeing today’s china’s military and civic leaders are so totalitarian. They really want a war with the US but since they don’t have the guts like the Japanese during WW2, we haven’t seen one yet (just google and find out how chinese generals ranting about surprise attack on the US.) Anyway, that’s a good thing.
Frank
Indians are not good at geography.
If they ever looked at their own map, they will know that China’s and Pakistan’s missile and air force bases are only a few hundreds kilometers away from India’s major cities.
India’s southern cities are also too close to the sea to have any time for BMD to react to submarine launched missiles.
If both countries decide to attack, India will only have 5 minutes warning. Within 10 minutes, India is finished.
The left over India’s missiles will have to penetrate China missile defense shield for at least 2000 kilometers to reach any large China cities.
It is said that the location of the country determines it destiny. India’s destiny had been determined by Alexandra the Great long time ago.
India had been, is and will always been a pet needing its masters.
Sam
“Indians are not good at geography.
If they ever looked at their own map, they will know that China’s and Pakistan’s missile and air force bases are only a few hundreds kilometers away from India’s major cities. etc. etc”
Frank is not good at anything including geography. His brain has gone to sleep so he repeats himself hoping to create a new ‘talking point’, but he keeps firing blanks.
Read my previous posts regarding treaties. Pakistan itself is only a few hundred kilometers wide so is a nobody when it comes to missile defence or offence.
“Within 10 minutes, India is finished.”
And the rest of the world is going to twiddle its thumbs while a billion people die? In ten minutes? Really? Even you cannot be that s_____.
‘enuf said.
Sam
Here Frankie go home to Mommy and tell her this. “Remember the ICBM I used to play with Mommy? Why I just bombed our neighbor with it and finished it in ten minutes!! And the diamonds dad was going to buy you with the $60Bn in trade with that country annually. Why it went up in smoke too! Aren’t you proud of me, Mommy? Pat me on the head now before I got more news for you. Dad’s dead too since he was there on a goodwill visit to make sure the trade keep going up so we could afford our mortgage payments, Mommy.”
Do you get it, Frankie Boy?? Oh no, I forgot your brain is still asleep.
Sam
Frankie Let me assure you that your Chinese market planners are wrong with their latest market forecast. They have been telling you that rattling your sabers and watching the world’s response is good for business because the rest of the world wants to buy soiled Chinese undergarments. That market in fact does not exist. You will have to clean up after yourselves when the red glare of their ICBMs can be seen. Good luck!
Sam
“India had been, is and will always been a pet needing its masters.”
So says Frankie
the Chinky
junkie
monkey!
Sam
Thanks, a_canadian_observer, Reason and Duke Chan et al.
Frank by another name smells just as bad. I am hoping information will help because these people live in the dark ages and probably eat toad stools or fungus or something, nothing close to anything growing in sunlight, it seems.
@Harry:
“india on the other hand use money to buy everything, and is even stupid enough to rent nuclear submarines for years and yet still havent produced a single worthy submarine. Even the steel india is using for it’s “indiginous” carrier is imported. not to mention it took inida 30 years to produce one of the most expensive tanks in the world the arjuns yet its performance is so crap not even the indian army is stupid enough to make any meaningful purchase.”
Yup. India uses money, not goats or yaks or guns-and-intimidation like China-the-Asian bully. It is called commerce, in case you did not know that. You should try it sometime instead of beating on the Tibetans and Uighurs whose land you appropriated without compensation equal to half your land area and where all your mineral resources come from. No, sending them to Chinese language school while you flood the place with Han Chinese is not compensation. Countries cooperate in building things all the time, from the beginnning of human history. It is called a global supply chain and it happens everywhere even China. One of the world’s best and oldest supply chain companies is Li and Fung based out of Hong Kong. You can read about them here:
http://www.amazon.com/100-Years-Li-Fung-Multinational/dp/9812659668/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1316187438&sr=8-3
The problem is that China is such a bad partner, does not deal in good faith which is the basis of the trust people have in each other, that nobody wants to work with it in anything but the cheapest products because it steals stuff whenever it can.
It is like a guest who when it comes to dinner, people hide their silverware and valuables and, put out plastic plates and cups for all the guests which makes for a poor experience all around. You have to invite it to dinner just to be polite and it lives in the (world) neighborhood so it would be in poor taste to not do so. Hopefully it will learn how other people live by going to their houses for dinner and improve itself.
It’s funny you mention Su27/Su30s. Wasn’t that the deal where China contracted to buy 200-400 planes and cancelled the order after the first 100 because they were able to copy them? I am sure they are ’superior’ because they incorporated designs copied from some other country, say like the USA/Israel? Why does China need all these other countries’ aircraft or designs if it is so superior in its own design. Just start with a fresh, blank sheet of paper and build something like everybody else. Or don’t you have the brains to build something original? You seem to keep needing training wheels like a kid with a tricycle. You are pointing to experiences gained from copying one design to make a copy of another design. Why can’t you do better than that? You were not colonized while the Brits were sucking on India, so you had your economy going for a long time without foreign influence right? You have all these dynasties Ming the merciless and whatever, created gunpowder, why can’t you make your own designs for anything in the last 100 years?
Barely 60 years after Indian independence in 1947 the PPP per capita income in India is $3500 and China is $7500 with no discernible foreign influence since 1910. Lest you think PRC’s economic model is hot here are some per capita numbers for you – Taiwan $35,600, Hong Kong 45,700 and Macau 60,000, all Chinese with different economic models.
The rest of the statement reflects a frustration with the language again as it makes opposing points or does not reflect reality. (There is a guy by the name of Ricardo who is taught in all economics schools because his Ricardian economics is the basis of all trade in the world. You should read about it It is Econ 101.)
Tata and the Brits are developing a new kind of armor
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7677102&c=ASI&s=TOP
Maraging steel for shipbuilding is produced in India but also imported because it is cheaper elsewhere and countries are lining up to work with India in a cooperative manner. It is another foreign concept to you it seems, its called division of labor. Human beings like working together that’s just the way it is and is unlikely to change.
Are you trying to say the Indian Armed Forces (all 1.1 Million of them) are stupid? Are you saying they are using the Arjun tank or not and, is that because they are stupid (or not)? Have you considered that China’s underhanded funding and equipping of Pakistan and the Maoist rebellions throughout the border areas in India may have something to do with it having these problems, which it is facing courageously and refusing to kill its own people like “the Chinese solution”?
I think you read Indian newspapers from say 2003 and write about them in 2011. Here is a recent article on the Arjun Mk I, not the advanced Mk II coming out soon:
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-05-18/news/27606101_1_mbt-arjun-t-90-arjun-main-battle-tanks
I don’t know about you but it sounds like they want to buy it.
Arjun Mk II
http://mangalorean.com/news.php?newsid=243874&newstype=local
Each time you make an assertion which turns out to be wrong or fabricated you get shot down and you sound increasingly desperate. While I would advice you to give it up you do not have to, we are all here waiting for your next set of lies as it gives us an opportunity to present yet another set of facts to set the record straight. Besides, it provides insight into your state of mind which has information content if it reflects Chinese society’s thinking. Otherwise you are just another blowhard without talent who ‘graces’ these pages with your diatribes. Please before you open your mouth and say or write something think it through. You will do yourself a big favor because you cannot unsay it and every action has a consequence you have to live with. I am happy to live with the consequences of my statements.
John Chan
@Sam:
“A steaming bucket of pig snort” – Jeremy Duncan, fits your comments best.
Sam
Copy and paste away baby!
Sam
all that concrete in there has to be good for something, right?
“I’ll wait a week for you to repeat this”.
nirvana
The “offer”, accepted or not by India, acknowledged a common view on something. Which is?
nirvana
Which is we are definitely entering a Cold War time, a very tough time for all of us ahead, except the business-oriented military and the ultra-nationalits.
Frank
This world has moved on to a very different era than the previous Cold War. Cold War is about ideology and internationalism.
The new world is about the conflicts of race, religion, culture and nationalities.
The history is repeating !!!
Soon, India will be occupied by another master. History always repeats. Never missed a step.
Duke Chan
Sam:
You have shut down the CCP’s mouthpiece (my brother, John Chan) successfully. Good job!
India will get helps from all sides to keep China in check. That is the way I see.
John Chan
@Duke Chan:
To maintain the quality of this site, we do not need blogger like Sam to show his ignorance here; his comments will make The Diplomat a laughing stock in front of other anti-China sites. Why don’t you do The Diplomat a favor? You can either ask Sam stop making himself a fool in the front of public or submit his comments to The Diplomat for approval first. If he can do that, he not only help The Diplomat, he also help India from being a laughing stock internationally too.
BTW, how about you also make some meaningful contribution to this site; your laziness is not fair to all other bloggers too.
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan: I’ve read many of sam’s writings, I mostly agree with him. If you don’t think sam should be on this blog, what makes you think people such as Frank, Sinodefender, megakids, mala, Huang, etc., and especially yourself desrve to be blogging here?
Sam
Thank you Duke Chan. John unfortunately has decided like Don Quixote to tilt at windmills. So sad…
Duke Chan
Sam:
Sorry, I have to disagree with you on this, my lost brother John Chan has decided to be a parrot instead. Only sings the songs that have been implanted. Sad..too sad.
Sam
Parrot’s good for me Duke Chan!
Sam
@John Chan
The readers of this site are quite knowledgeable about the English language, economics and finance so they are unlikely to seek or take advantage of your freely given advice and direction. I will let them read what both of us have written and decide for themselves.
I am not as good as you in one area and one area only: mud slinging and I hope you keep that advantage for a very long time. Now I suppose you will have to return to your phrase book and the cut and paste style of fact free writing that you specialize in. Good luck.
Sam
To all readers of The Diplomat. A new assignment.
Exhibit A
‘John Chan September 16, 2011 at 9:25 pm
@Sam:
It is understandable that people like you will not want to learn anything from other culture due to your close-mindedness. I am here doing my best to present Chinese point of view on world events using my second language, so that I hope I can promote peace and prosperity by removing misunderstanding between the westerners and Chinese.
Since you do not know Chinese and have no interest to learn about China, what makes you keep on yapping bigotry troll against China that is detrimental to the world peace and prosperity? Why do you have to waste your native language on things that are destructive?’
Exhibit B
‘John Chan September 17, 2011 at 2:52 am
It seems English is not Sam’s native language, Sam’s writing seems lacking the fluency of native language to me, particular the 2nd sentence of the 3rd paragraph, the structure of that sentence is pretty clumsy to me; it is one of the typical problems that people using English as second language will make; does Sam mean China cannot sell her products if her clientele does not have money in that sentence? After reading the 3rd paragraph, I am sure English is not Sam’s native language. It is pretty shameless for Sam to criticize other blogger’s English while his English is much to be desired.’
Your role should you decide to take is to spot the inconsistency in just five and a half hours on the comments to the same post, all on the same page! This is what happens if you mindlessly write something without examining what you are writing in its entirety and spend time cutting and pasting and reading the phrasebook and too little time editing what you have written. You come across as basically incompetent and truth and consistency are the first casualties as you struggle to make your point.
Hint: It has the word ‘native’ in it!
John Chan
@Sam:
Cut and Paste from a phrase book, that’s how you anti-China bigots troll on the Internet, it is disgusting.
If you are the product of USA education system, then it is not surprising that USA is on the decline. No wonder USA industry wanted to move their productions to somewhere with workers who can read manuals and instructions.
Sam
@John Chan
When you go for an interview with a consulting firm, usually after a Master’s degree and they ask you a question and you answer something else or are evasive, they usually say ATQ – answer the question. So I ask you to ATQ.
Sam
Prove the USA is declining, John. That old proof source requirement is tripping you up again as you attempt yet another reptilian mind trick on us!
It is $14 trillion economy, its currency is the world’s reserve currency, its per capita income is $47,000 and it has 3.4 million millionaires (of which 109,000 are African American) the largest in the world. If that is a nation in decline I would like to embrace that kind of decline with both arms.
Then you have China with 535,000 millionaires, unfortunately none from Tibet or Xinjiang with all the mineral resources and half the land area of China, (a truly ‘disgusting’ fact if ever there was one. I am using that word since you like it so much. I will try to use ‘redneck bigot troll’ next time just so you can remember the spelling, you will never get its proper usage ever though), with a per capita income of $7,500 and a pitiful managed currency, the renminbi. You need to compare this to other majority Chinese countries like Hong Kong ($45,000 per capita) and Taiwan ($35,000 per capita) to understand who is huffing and puffing to make it over the next development hill.
Sam
And John if you “hope I can promote peace and prosperity by removing misunderstanding between the westerners and Chinese.”, there are better ways to do so without insulting them every chance you get.
Reason
Give it up for Sam and John Chan…. RESPECT!
Long live freedom of expression… and down with any society that stunts such expression and subjugates its people’s voices
thinker
India and China are neighbors, please do not let NATO destroy ASIA. Chinese need to come to their senses and be tactful. India’s submission to NAto is also the entire Asian’s submission to NATO.
think about it deeply. this would be a strong defense to end nuclear tactics and gain peaceful strategies. Asia needs to think about this long and hard.
Jack
It is a Great Offer and India Should Take It . It means India and NATO have same Enemies and Principles . This is also a recognition of India’s Growing Importance in World Affairs and International Community .