The People's Liberation Army Navy has finally broken the silence about its new carrier-based jet fighter, the J-15. While outside observers have strongly suspected for several years that China intended to deploy the J-15 – an adaptation of the Russian Su-33 – aboard the PLAN's first aircraft carrier Shi Lang, Chinese officials didn’t confirm it until last week.
Confirmation of the J-15 came with some revealing details about the plane's missions and limitations. It’s clearer than ever that the J-15 will inherit most of the Su-33’s limitations, particularly with regard to payload and range. As a result, Shi Lang could be highly vulnerable to foreign naval forces in combat.
Unnamed ‘Chinese aviation officials’ said that three J-15 prototypes would begin testing this year, and that the last of them would have all the features of the planned operational version, including folding wings to allow more compact storage aboard Shi Lang, a refurbished Soviet vessel that displaces just two-thirds as much as a US flattop.
Shi Langdoesn’t have the steam catapults that US and French carriers use to launch aircraft. Instead, the Chinese ship, like its Russian sister ship Kuznetsov, uses an elevated ramp to help boost planes into the air. Ramp-launch, while less complex than a catapult, doesn’t impart the same amount of energy. That means ramp-launched fighters must be relatively light. The British Harrier, which used a ramp, weighed just 7 tonnes empty. The Su-33 weighs 20 tons empty.
In Russian service, the Su-33 has been restricted to short-range patrols carrying just a few air-to-air missiles. That's the big reason why the Kuznetsov has never had a major impact on the European naval balance.
Shi Langwill be similarly handicapped, more so because the Chinese intend the J-15 to carry the C-602 anti-ship cruise missile. Carrying a single one-tonne C-602, the J-15 will have an operational range of just 250 miles, according to the anonymous industry officials. It’s not clear if the J-15 will be able to carry air-to-air missiles for self-protection, in addition to the C-602.
If the Chinese military operated a large number of effective aerial tankers, the J-15's payload limitation would be more manageable. Even catapult-launched fighters, such as the US F/A-18E/F, can range just 400 miles from their carrier with useful combat load. But aerial refueling can extend that range to more than 1,000 miles. F/A-18s routinely fly missions over Afghanistan from carriers operating in the Indian Ocean.
If Shi Lang is meant to operate in a sea control role, clearing the ocean of enemy vessels, then it could find itself at a disadvantage compared to rival naval forces. The C-602 has a range of around 250 miles. So a Chinese carrier battle group could strike surface targets at a distance of 500 miles.
A US carrier group launching F-18s armed with Harpoon anti-ship missiles could strike from a distance of at least 600 miles. Factor in aerial refueling – and the fact that the Harpoon is light enough for a single F-18 to carry two – and the US advantage increases dramatically. The Su-33 is simply not an ideal fighter for ramp-equipped carriers.
It’s telling that within a few years, the Chinese will be the only country operating Su-33s or its derivatives from carriers. The Russians decided to replace the Su-33 with a version of the much smaller MiG-29 after realizing that the MiG had similar performance, but Kuznetsov could carry many more of them. The Indians, too, are buying a MiG-29 variant to replace their Harriers.
Future Chinese carriers could include a catapult. Indeed, the likelihood that carriers after Shi Lang will be catapult-equipped is sure to increase, once the PLAN sees firsthand how limited its J-15s really are.








JB
I think the critical thing for the US is to get the replacement for the Harpoon into service as quite soon.
Frank
David Axe again misunderstands the usage of China’s carrier. He needs to visit China from time to time if he wants to write about China.
Chinese will not use the carrier(s) to attack their best customers and borrowers USA. If you know some Chinese people, you will understand that Chinese have business minds.
They love money and the people who pay them. They love Americans.
China’s carrier(s) are prepared for countries like Vietnam and India.
India only has a WWII tiny little carrier with out dated Harrier fighters. It is no match to Shi Lang.
If China and USA go to war some day, carriers are useless. ICBM would be the king of the battle.
Tony Nguyen
I really have fun reading pro-China comments about how amazing, how advanced, how strong is China’s military. These tools are for domestic consumption only. Viets are peace-loving people, coz they had been through three big battles in the last century alone with millions of deaths. Sure they don’t want a fight anymore. Most Viets are moderate people, we don’t like extremism, more so oppression and fascism. China should be grateful to have a rather obedient Viet’s communist government by its side – which is unfortunately a total disaster to the Viet’s people. This is to say: should China want to test its new found military, don’t look for trouble with Vietnam. China stands to lose, once the communist regime in Vietnam lost its legitimacy due to overly obedient to its big boss, a new leader can muster enough support from inside and outside to take back our land and sea.
Fahzen
There’s no mention of China bragging or from anyone about how advanced it is. In fact, the top military brass from China said the US was more advanced. Vietnam should be the one grateful for China standing by its side during its war with the US, but they now are jumping back and forth between the two countries from outcrop disputes to economic favors. Vietnam is just a trouble making country.
Frank
Jey must be an East Indian. If you take a look at India’s carrier schedule, you will know that by the time India has 3 carriers, China will have more than one.
China is developing a ballistic missile shield using HQ-9 and DF21 based missiles. There were a few test fires already.
China’s missile shield is not prepared for the best customer and borrow USA.
It is for India.
Jey
Dear frank,
Nice to know that you have found me as an east Indian, that’s not true, i am an Indian.
then nice to know, you guys are not attacking USA, rather you guys cannot afford to… plainly put you guys cannot…
then your greatness on so-called missile shield, is DF-21 a anti ballistic missile? no no no… it is Anti-ship ballistic missile(DF-21D), got it?
then HQ-9 is a surface to air missile not a anti-ballistic missile… there are differences… that i cannot explain it now… its true that some surface to air missiles can intercept missiles but not always(probability 0.1)… that too with some sophisticated ballistic missiles probability is near null..
If you are still adamant can you please tell me your anti ballistic missile is exo-atmospheric or endo?
then i agree with your aircraft carrier projections… china might have 2 by the time we have 3 but then there are lot of other strategical things which i will not explain it here… having said that you cannot move your aircraft carrier near our far cost during war.. we will sink it… i know how but i will not tell it… you can ask your strategical experts they will tell you why…
Apart from that there are many technical stuffs, small hint, moving a vessel is not important but with what technology?
again, i still doubt your anti ship ballistic missile DF-21D capability, CEP < 30 m? for a ballistic missile in itself? that too to a possibly moving target? i really doubt it… but if you really have this anti-ship land based one i really appreciate your scientists brilliance… but its of no use in our case… you might know y…
Then you guys don't be so arrogant that you guys got some money in your pocket… Lot of guys have money, and this money comes and goes after some time… that time could be war… so don't blabber, read facts and think guys…
then also your communist morons want war then we are ready to face you and make you beggars again and well we may also have the same fate…
Frank
“you guys cannot afford to… plainly put you guys cannot…” attack USA.
Very true. China cannot attack USA. And has no plans to do so.
I am glad I detected another East Indian here. East Indians have their distinctive ways of writing. Normally they are blinded believe something which is not true in a very strong sense. I think it has something to do with their funny religions.
You have to have certain blindness to believe in a god with an elephant nose and/or in the form of a rat.
And their IQs are normally low.
DF-21 was developed as a ballistic missile. However, it was modified for other use. Check here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-21
Jey
Dear frank,
I said i am an Indian not an east Indian…
And about our belief you are correct some belief as you said… ha ha ha… but there are also other beliefs… because we are secular…
Then the DF21D wiki i saw, one place its mentioned that its being modified as an anti-missile system… gr8… lets wait and see for a credible test…
Jey
@Frank, Just don’t blabber gentle man, first do u guys know how to use a aircraft carrier in a war like situation? it will take lot and lot of time to learn it… if u don’t learn it and use it then u will never use it for another 10 years.. because u guys will lose it using it…
then u r blabber about ICBM… then u r taking about nuclear/thermo-nuclear then u r really joking… what china has done for 35 years will go off in 3 days…
More on u r ICBM blabber… do u guys have a credible missile defense system? which US has and it has it in place all around china, look-shoot-look-shoot technology… learn facts…
then u r great analysis about Indian WWII class aircraft carrier… may be true… by the time u guys learn how to use aircraft carrier in war, India would have retired the current aircraft carrier(WWII class and i also suppose Chinese Shi Lang also a refurbished one of soviet varyag…) and will be using 3 carriers(Vikramaditya, Vikrant , Vishal),check facts…
i think u r playing lot of virtual war games stuffs in u r PC or playstation… so come out to real world, know real world facts and stop blabbering…
Brad
When the use common Western names like “Frank” but speak in broken English and push pro-Chinese views with all abandon to facts, it really make me think they are just trolling from some computer in the Chinese intellegence services.
John Chan
@Brad:
It is really not worthy of you; Frank, Tony Nguyen and Jey were having a nice discussion, why do you have to spoil the fun with you lousy attack involving personals?
Brad
John, you are also probably a Chinese agent, and the people you mentioned in your post agreed with me after you said that! I bet you really wish The Diplomat let you delete posts huh??
Jey
@Brad, you are right on the money, could be Chinese intelligence service… i think Chinese badly need a war to show that they are one of the real super power… But the Chinese are forgetting no one really like them(this means a lot), if you see some of the Chinese close ally Pakistan(a pure religion based country, we all know what they are good at, the worlds largest terror exporter), North Korea(i don’t have words to scold this guys) pathetic pure morons, etc…
Out of their allies and Chinese i think Chinese are the only moderate guys… thanks god otherwise we already would have witnessed one or more or combined war by now…
Brad
Very true, they are completley surrounded by our allies 360 degrees. The only ally they have in the region is NK and they are really only good for their large land army but even so NK’s army is tied up on the peninsula and could only attack South Korea. Mean while all the countries of South East asia, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, and India would be attacking from all sides. Russia would stay out due to commercial ties with Europe and defense development ties with India (REAL defense ties, not just selling one or two planes to have them copied like they do with the Chinese). It would be over before it even started. The most China could possible have to show at the end of this type of conflict could be a damaged U.S carrier as a result of a DF-21 strike. Even the accuracy of that weapon is questionable, although the range quite impressive if the figures they are giving are true. They may get 1 hit out of 20 or 30 missiles fired though. As for their airforce it would be destroyed on the ground by submarine launched tomohawks (around 600-700 are currently within striking distance aboard U.S subs and surface ships) per the common U.S practice. China’s land army, with their hunting rifles and wobbly helicopters would at best be an even match with the Indian/ South East asian armies, but vastly out numbered due to the number of countries (ASEAN, et al.) that would get involved. John and his buddies would not have a chance.
John Chan
@Brad:
Labelling other bloggers Chinese intelligence service, WuMao proxies, or CCP mouthpiece is a common practice of low quality bloggers who have nothing better to say, so they have to resort to those underhand smearing tricks for covering their embarrassment of losing ground.
We are practicing freedom of speech here, which is one of the core pillars of supporting democracy. Integrity is utmost important to keep freedom of speech meaningful and honest. Deleting posts equivalents to manipulation of public opinions and truth, only tyrant and authoritarian want to do that. Brad you may not have integrity, but I have my integrity to keep, it is a great insult that you could possibly suggest such idea to me.
Brad
stooping to personal attacks again I see
Brad
I would also opine that someone that gets paid to post ideas with little intelectual or factual value has very little integrity. The wording and meaning of your most recent post really shows a CCP view on the term “freedom of speach.” I never said a CCP intelligence agent should not have a right to freedom of speach, I merely pointed out that the bias of your posts show that you probably are one, not that you should not be posting on here. Of course the common CCP member thinks that in the western world the internet is only for citizens and should not be used by governments to post government sponserd ideas, this is not the case, agent shouldk just identify themselves as such and truely I would be much more interested to know that I was discussing these topics with someone that has “inside knowledge” I would actually find that intellectually thrilling.
Clearly John Chan is not the person for that though, he seems to just throw out one or two sentence insults at the U.S and then attack anyone that raises an objection at the lack of fact in his posts.
But back to the article at hand, it is quite clear that the J-15 will never match U.S naval aviation, the quality of the J-15 is along the lines of the aircraft the U.S used in the Vietnam war, old hat in my opinion.
Frank
If I were a Chinee agent, then, you can believe what I said.
China is NOT going to attack its best customer and borrower USA. Chinese love money. We love USA.
Our carriers and missile shields are prepared for Vietnam and India.
John Chan
@Brad:
You did me a great injustice, I merely point out the bigotry towards China in the anti-China bloggers’ including yours posts. I am acting like a mirror in front of them to let them know how ugly they are, yet you are shooting the messenger.
In your second paragraph, you clearly indicated that I am too lousy to be a CCP mouthpiece or a WuMao proxy. You put me in a very difficult position, shall I be glad that I am cleared as an ordinary blogger, or shall I be sad that my comments were not sharp enough?
Chinese bloggers are here to expose lies told about China, correct distorted facts laid on China and clear smear painted on China. Only tyrants monopolize truth and facts, that’s exactly the anti-China bloggers including you are trying to do.
Brad, since you already know that I am an ordinary Chinese blogger with English as my second language, how about you identify yourself as you suggested in your comment, you should walk the talk, which neo-con think tank or agency do you work for? Which political party are you a member?
Leonard R.
@Brad, you give them too much credit.
They are the two premier 5 RMB’ers on site. But there are many others.
@Jey, congratulations. Frank has also accused me of being Indian.
I always considered that a compliment.
Frank
Jey is a real one.
You are a white man and most likely living in the Bible belt area of USA.
Brad
@ John Chan, I am actually a democrat and and never voted for any neo-cons or conservatives. I studied international relations in college and my family lived in China for a few years so I am familiar with the region and the underlying isses as well, thats really all you need to know.
Brad
@Frank, I live in the north actually, although I’m sure if you wanted to your agency could ping it. It doesnt take a redneck from the south (I agree with you and John Chans assertion that most of them are a little “behind the times”) to understand that China’s fighters are way behind the U.S’
Tippy Teng
Franky had been playing too many PS3 video games. He thinks with just a single diesel powered aircraft carrier and couple dozen lame copied planes, the PLA Navy could control the Southeast Asian Sea. He doesn’t know how critical the area is and how close Vietnam is situated at the choke-point of 80% of China’s import-export shipping route. If push comes to shove a sort of “blockage” in the form of antiship missiles could easily cripple China’s economy.
Franky should have a chat with the old PLA soldiers who got their whipping from a bunch of old men and women of the Vietnamese militia during the 1979 war. As always, Chinese troops came to Vietnam in huge number and with high expectations of easy victory, only to get beaten to smithereens and ran back to their side of the border with severe psychological problems.
John Chan
@Tippy Teng:
Maintaining South China Sea seaway communication freedom and safety are USA first priority. If Vietnam ever tries to do something stupid to affect the freedom and safety of SCS seaway passage, every nation using SCS will shoot Vietnamese aeroplane and missile down and sink every Vietnamese warship. Vietnam will be the replacement of Al-Qaeda or Gaddafi in no time.
Actually I am not sure whether you are a Vietnamese or an Indian, because the way you talk about 1979 war you sounded like a Indian who tried to transfer Indian’s humiliation onto China by ignoring the fact that Vietnam had to evict everybody in Hanoi for the advent of PLA attack; as well as Chinese had difficulty in persuading Vietnamese female POW back to home.
BTW, where were the Vietnamese soldiers? How could they send the old and the female as their cannon folders? Are Vietnamese soldiers cowards? Don’t they feel ashamed? Don’t they suppose to protect the old, the young and the female?
Frank
“Frank doesn’t know how critical the area is and how close Vietnam is situated at the choke-point of 80% of China’s import-export shipping route. If push comes to shove a sort of “blockage” in the form of antiship missiles could easily cripple China’s economy.”
I know.
Most importantly, Chinese leaders also know.
That is why China will never ever allow Vietnam turns to hostile for long.
Frank
Wow.
So many responses. I must be doing something right.
Sinodefender
The problem with these responses is how all pro-China bloggers are Communist propaganda machines lol
Arch N. Emmy
India is acquiring an aircraft carrier from Russia, has already acquired MiG 29-K aircraft to fly from it, is acquiring more, and has an indigenous carrier under construction. China has a rusting unfinished hulk, and two inferior copies of a plane the Russians have already abandoned because of performance problems. India is decades ahead of China in Naval aviation, not behind.
Zhou
The Americans are bankrupt beggars of our money
Brad
We really should have just let Japan keep China after WWII, you seem so grateful.
Fahzen
If that were the case, then everyone in China should be cheering for Pearl Harbour attacks. The US had their own battle so it wasn’t a matter of letting who have who.
John Chan
Obama has proposed to cut 140 billions a year from defence and domestic spending for the next 10 years. Maybe there won’t be any F-18 around to challenge J-15.
Brad
Perhaps you have not seen the total U.S defense budget, which does not even include so called “black” programs, most of which this point are probably directed at China. The U.S already has 100s of F-18s and even more F-15s and F-16s, all of which have higher performance that the SU-33 or its Chinese copy.
John Chan
India air force pilots said they beat F-15 in Red Flag with their Su-30 hands down. Maybe USA should build more F-22 to counter J-15.
Fahzen
I read about that too.
Fahzen
I was referring to John’s comment.
Jey
dear jhon chan, this is because of the avionics in place, all french, Israelite and russian, so you guys shouldn’t think about it…
Brad
While useful in air to air combat, the F-15 is really more of a ground attack plane, on the other hand the F-16 Fighting Falcon is the ideal 4th generation air to air fighter, only now upstaged by the F-22 and F-35. It does not surprise me that F-16s beath F-15s in Red Flag. As we know though, Jey, some posters on this forum do not seem to be interested in facts, merely posting anti-Western, pro Chinese/ NK views.
Brad
Thats what I get for watching an F-16 documentary while posting on here. I re-read Johns post and he was discussing the SU-30. However, the performance of the SU-30 is quite the same as an F-16 so my point remains, dog fighting a fighter against a F/A, the fighter will always win.
Dean
Chan,
Dollar is still the American currency and global reserve. They just play politics for the upcoming 2012!In the latest news, F/A/-18EF super hornet could easily take care of chinese coming “stealth J20″!! and the Japanese are planning to buy them for their Air Force to counter the coming Chinese J20s, not the junk stuff J15 or J18s!But some credible source from Russia claimed that the J20 was just for show-off! Is that true?!
John Chan
@Dean:
Will you be happen if I say J-20 pictures and clips are just Chinese Photoshop handy works? If you believe so, then you are right, please let Pentagon and Japanese know it too, ask them to be relax, everything about J-20 is fake.
guest
Maybe the PLA needs more comic book artists to teach them about war stuff.
John Chan
It seems good idea; comic books seem to impart knowledge more efficient. Walt Disney used comic artists won the propaganda war against fascist German and Japanese in WWII too. As long as the contents in the comic books are all right, I don’t see anything wrong of using comic books to teach war stuff.
Harry
If some one like it or not, the fact is, China is the the World leader. America and Europe are in eternal debt and can’t provide for their people anymore. So far India is concerned, the rise and shine is all Western propaganda, as there are still more than 860 million hungry people in that country.
Prestwick
I think we’re all barking up the wrong tree when we use the example of the Indian SU-30MKI as a scare tactic to try and force America into spending more on defence. Why? Well India does not see America as its main enemy because it sees China as its no.1 rival.
America does not need to build yet more F-22s when its program of refurbishing its existing fleet of F-15s, F-16s and F-18s with an eye to replacing all with F-35s will keep America safe for the medium term. All other challengers – current and future – are either unproven (J-20 or the PAK-FA) or can’t compete with the F-22/F-16/F-15 combo.
As for American defence spending it is providing seriously awful value for money when it has an air force with rusting air frames, a navy with a substantial chunk in dry dock for repairs and an Army tied up in two unwinnable wars. The cuts of over $100 billion are tied to America leaving Afghanistan and Iraq and all the costs that go with those two campaigns will go with it. America’s defence will not suffer from a slight 10% haircut to its budget.
Brad
A good point, but the wars in Afg. Iraq are not entirely funded by the DOD budget. Not all of the savings will translate into R&R spending due to the compliacted way congress has chosen to fund these wars, hopefully it should yield some extra money for key programs though. For example I would love to see some of the money that we would save not having to maintain as many vehicles and bases in theater put towards LCS upgrades (if we really have to stick with the whole LCS idea at all), improved avionics and fixing the oxygen system for F-22s, and speeding along the development of the F-35.
Frank
If some of you think that I were a Chinee agent, then, you can believe what I said.
China is NOT going to attack its best customer and borrower USA. Chinese love money. We love USA.
Our carriers and missile shields are prepared for Vietnam and India.
a_canadian_observer
@Frank: If you’re an agent, then you’re not a very good one. You have not been able to make any friend yet. You’re just like a sheep repeating after its master, the CCP.
Observer
Just wait and see when Chinese airplanes begin falling out of the sky due to quality issues, Chinese bloggers will blame Japan or US. LOL.
2nd lt ensign j.g. usmc usn
2nd nov 2011:
J-13 day of the dead
J-14 maybe maybe not
J-15 not today
J-16 nebraska
J-17 colorado rockies
J-18 f.e. wyoming
J-19 one disinterested deed
J-20 yale bulldogs
J-21 crimson faith hope
J-22 four bears