In conjunction with the Chronicle of Higher Education, the New York Times has just published a feature article on the 130,000 or so Chinese studying on American campuses. Ever since 2004, when the U.S. government relaxed visa requirements for Chinese students and American universities began recruiting Chinese undergraduates, Chinese not adapting well to American academic life has been a growing problem. And now, because the New York Times has pronounced it so, it’s officially a problem.
But what exactly is the problem?
The obvious answer is the language barrier, which results in Chinese students keeping silent in the classroom, and ostracizing themselves from campus life. Then, of course, there’s the cheating and plagiarizing, as well as the psychological and behavioral issues that arise from the culture shock.
The good news is that Chinese parents are themselves concerned, and Chinese students who are planning to study abroad are, as early as elementary school, taking weekend English classes, watching “Gossip Girl,” and attending summer camps in the United States. Chinese applicants to U.S. colleges and universities are increasing in terms of both quantity and quality.
But here’s the bad news: Cross-cultural tensions on the American campus may still increase because the problem isn’t Chinese students who can’t speak English – it’s fundamentally a clash of civilizations. Chinese and Americans have fundamentally different values, norms, and worldviews, and Chinese students on U.S. campuses is merely the first front of the inevitable struggle between the hegemon and its challenger.
Chinese students studying in America isn’t historically new – this is in fact the third wave. The first wave occurred around the turn of the 20th century, when a humbled China’s best and brightest, either on Christian missionary or government scholarships, went to a rising America to learn “science and democracy” to save the motherland. The second wave occurred after Deng Xiaoping’s opening up when China’s best and brightest went to U.S. graduate schools just to get the hell out of China. What distinguishes this third wave of Chinese study abroad students is that they are the children of a confident and assertive Chinese elite, and they have no intention of kowtowing to Americans; in fact, they think the world revolves around them, just like it did back in China.
In this way, many of these 130,000 or so Chinese students studying in the United States are no worse and no better than the scions of the South American, African, European, Asian and American elite currently studying in America. But what makes these Chinese students – many of whom while speaking terrible English are still much more polite and considerate than their American peers – stand out is that they’re Chinese in a time when a declining United States is more and more anxious about a rising China.
That’s why those Chinese students who are most frustrated with their experience in the United States are sometimes those who try hardest to surmount the cultural barrier. Read this paragraph from the New York Times / Chronicle of Higher Education story:
“[A Chinese marketing major] recalls one class in which, she says, the professor ignored her questions and only listened to American students. Also, while working on a group project in a sociology class, she says she was given the cold shoulder: ‘They pretend to welcome you but they do not.’ The encounters left a deep impression. ‘I will remember that all of my life,’ she says.”
Now read this comment posted online in response to the article:
“As a Chinese who studied in the U.S. with full scholarship, I appreciated the opportunity and the professors who helped me very much. However, I remember vividly how I was not so warmly welcomed by my fellow American students in group assignment…[M]ost Chinese like the U.S. That is why millions are learning English, watching American movies, and sending their children to the U.S. for their education are pro U.S…As a matter of fact, I got most of the negative image of the U.S. after I lived here for years.”
And these two Chinese students are hardly alone in their sentiments: For his college paper, Zhou Yeran, a former student of mine, wrote how many of his Chinese classmates at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, home to thousands of Chinese students, have negative impressions of America.
We can argue endlessly who’s at fault here, but the fact that China’s future elite will return to China one day and assume the mantles of power with such negative memories of their time in the United States isn’t a good thing. In fact, I know many overseas returned Chinese who have become wealthy thanks in part to their American graduate degree, but who nevertheless are far more nationalistic and xenophobic than the Chinese I know who’ve never been abroad.
The irony is that U.S. colleges and universities justify matriculating so many Chinese students as a way of bridging the vast Sino-American cultural divide. But some U.S. colleges and universities will say just about anything in order to justify using Chinese students to plug growing budget holes, even if doing so may have serious long-term geo-political consequences.
My fear is that trend of Chinese students studying in America is a ticking time bomb that will create an international crisis when it goes off: there are just too many there at a time when Sino-American relations are becoming more tense, and U.S. leaders are desperately looking for a scapegoat to explain away the problems they’ve created in the first place.
It’s good that the world’s most powerful newspaper has finally declared Chinese students studying in the United States to be a problem. It’s just that it’s a much bigger problem than we’re willing to admit.
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yang zi
very good article. impressive.
The harsh realities of culture differences and racist impulses are difficult to deal with for the younger kids. Chinese media, education and parenting are not preparing the students well.
In addition to English, there are many gaps between a China and US in culture and education. This is not unique to China, Japanese generally likes to live in Japan, most Japanese student go back after studying in US.
MostJustWantPeace
As a matter of fact, the rate of Japanese students returning to their native countries is quite high. Of course, this has to be put into the perspective of the very few numbers of Japanese who choose to study abroad in the first place (decreasing ever since Japan’s economy went into the doldrums). However, one also has to consider how developed Japan is, compared to the still developing conditions in China.
Wallax
Is it enough to explain the problem with the mantra ‘clash of civilizations’?
Frankie Fook-lun Leung
I taught at Stanford Law School and University of Southern California Law School as a lecturer. I also taught at the Hong Kong University Law School. There are marked differences between teaching American students and Asian students. It is true that most Chinese students gravitate toward science and engineering courses, especially at the graduate levels in the USA. Two reasons, foreign students are more likely go get financial assistance doing those courses because Americans are not good enough or interested. Secondly, language handicaps are the least. Unfortunately, the continuation of such a trend tends to reinforce the stereotypes that Asians (Chinese included) are only good at quantitative sciences. Compared to my colleagues in sciences and engineering, an Asian face in law school (especially one of my background being an immigrant) is (or was) a solitary odd ball. China now faces the dilemma of having good engineers in technical skills but their politicians and administrators are not at the same level. You can see a lot of catastrophes are human-made, such as building collapsing, bullet trains running into each other. Deng Xiaoping once said: Chinese need not learn from USA politics. He is damned wrong.
MostJustWantPeace
Well Frankie, you need a balance. Look at the US – they have too many liberal arts types and too few engineering/science types. And look at the problems the US has (e.g. large segments of the population denying anthropogenic climate change). Too much ivory tower social theory and not enough getting down and dirty with the facts can also be detrimental.
John Chan
Citing some bad collapsed buildings and collided bullet trains as proof that Deng Xiaping’s idea of “Chinese need not learn from USA politics” damned wrong is rather hasty and jumping to the conclusion from irrelevant evidence. Bad constructions and catastrophic traffic accidents are not unique to China; it is just as bad in the developed world as in China. Such outright conclusion smells a lot like Liu XiaoBo style of constructive criticism.
A regime under the leadership of engineers has created 30 years of uninterrupted growth, peace and prosperity miracle, from a dirt-poor nation to the world 2nd largest economy, and the one popping up the developed world. Yet since WWII, USA under the leadership of lawyers and liberal art talents went on to ruin an energetic and prosperous nation and changed it into a financial egoistic, bellicose, bankrupted, biggest debtor of the world and most unjust social welfare society.
Even on the edge of national collapse, the elites of those lawyers and liberal art talents are more interested in fighting for their own interests, instead of putting the national interests first.
Asking an upward going nation to learn from a nation on the sliding slop to the obliviousness is absurd and simply a bad joke, particular the advice comes from a self-proclaimed renowned scholar from world prestige schools.
No wonder the world is screwed up, because the world elite academias are stuffed with warmongers, and henchmen from the world black information networks. They are there to destroy world peace and prosperity.
Huang
“Time bomb” is way off context or common sense as described by one US newspaper or any others. In fact, many newspaper articles were written as though people would take their words as they are without any knowledge or real understandings of the fact.
In the case Chinese students attending US universities or graduate shools, all or most are there to STUDY and not to be liked or dis-like. Unpleasant experiences or mis-understandings are a part of college life for almost every students-American or Chinese. Hence,to say that these Chinese students will bring any bitterness back to China and somehow becoming a “ticking time bomb” is grossly overstated and misleading. To characterize this factor of college life abroad to be a “problem” is rediculous to the extreme.
If Chinese students encounter a few un-pleasant experiences,then it would be likely that foreign students studying in China also are facing similar difficlties as well. Beside, it would be ill-informed to suggest that most Chinese students in the US face adjustments difficulties.
Finally, student life is not different than everyday life, we all share the ups and downs of life. This only help us to appreciate and cherish what is worthwhile memorable.
P.S. ” The strong find strenghts and courage when facing adversities while the weak and not-so-healthy break down when adversities striked”.
a_canadian_observer
@Huang: I almost agree with you, except one difference. The chinese culture seems big on revenge. This has shown in a lot of movies I’ve seen – people can hold grudges for a long time (bite our time, conceal our intention) and then take revenge in the end. That’s something to consider.
Huang
@a-canadian-observer,
Are what you mentioned applicable to “ALL underthe Sun” ?–and are your generalizations to unfair especially to yourself too ?
Open up your heart and mind and the natural World(realities) would naturally providing great and meaning explainations to your inner entanglements and blockages.
Agian, no man made notions can stand the test of nature(the truths) and time (each new day bring another new hope or answer).
So… trust nature and sail along allowing the fresh sea breeze brouncing off your smiling face. Life is beautiful and full of meanings. That goes for college life too.
a_canadian_observer
@Huang: Sounds like you’re teaching (with formatted words). But thanks. I admit I still have a lot to learn, but not from someone like you or any other CCP agent.
Justsayno
Odd article considering the fact that the author is “china’s leading educator” as introduced during recent NPR interview. First, what kind of educator calls his own students “time bombs” and “cheaters”? As a “leading educator” isn’t it the authors job to think of ways to reduce cheating in china? What has he done in this regard? The author’s suggestion to solve this mess is equally absurd. Limiting the access to us unversities? As that would make us china relationship any better.
How about this, both china and the us schools punish cheaters more harshly, and the Us universities come up with better programs to address diversity. The current diversity programs stress mostly on white black Hispanic relationships while ignoring Asians.
Old Wolf
In the case Chinese students attending US universities or graduate shools, all or most are there to STUDY and not to be liked or dis-like.
Quoted for truth. The only reason for college is to get your degree and then get the hell out. There is no reason to participate in anything that does not contribute towards that goal. That means “dating” and “meeting someone” is irrelevant and not worth pursuing until after you’ve obtained your degree.
Leonard R.
This is without a doubt, the worst-written, worst-reasoned article I have ever read in the Diplomat.
I decided to go to the NYT article to see if it really says what the professor claims. Not surprisingly, it doesn’t.
Here is a link. Judge for yourselves readers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/education/edlife/the-china-conundrum.html
The first two pages focus on the application process inside China, specifically, ‘education agents’ inside China.
That leads to a brief description on page 3 of a small number of identity fraud and plagiarism incidents. It also praises Chinese students’ ability to memorize large tracts of information.
Page 4 recounts the infamous ‘cold shoulder affair’ where one student Ms. Tang, faulted one professor in one marketing class for ignoring her. And she also faulted other students and America in general, for not being being sufficiently welcoming to her. She vows she will carry that grudge with her the rest of her life will. Perhaps the next war will be triggered by an aggrieved marketing student with hurt feelings. Is that what has the author so up in arms?
Also on page 4, yet more praise is lavished upon Chinese students by American professors. But it’s still not enough to assuage the feelings of Ms. Tang or the author apparently.
The article ends with a return to the discussion of university recruitment, following a brief discussion of English language ability among Chinese students. Nowhere are Chinese students referred to as a ‘crisis’ or even a growing ‘problem’ in American higher education. Nowhere are the dire scenarios extrapolated by the author even mentioned or justified.
This article may pass for valid scholarship in China. But it is without a doubt, the worst-reasoned, most inaccurate and most sloppily written article I have ever read in this publication. To quote the author: “Chinese not adapting well to American academic life has been a growing problem. And now, because the New York Times has pronounced it so, it’s officially a problem.”
Problems can exist independently of the New York Times pronouncements. And nowhere does the article come close to the author’s sweeping and invalid conclusions. The article does not claim all or even most Chinese students have a problem. Nor does it claim that all or even most universities have a problem with them.
I do see a problem though. Why did the Diplomat publish this author’s tenuous twaddle? That is the only problem I’m left to wonder about.
lungshashou
I have read the original article and agree with you. God is there someone we can complain to about this sort of drivel?
I mean from Andrew Erickson to this – the sublime to the ….!
I note
Jiang Xueqin is a deputy principal at Peking University High School and the director of its International Division. From 2008 to 2010, Mr. Jiang created and managed the Shenzhen Middle School study abroad program. He has previously worked as a journalist, a documentary film-maker, and a United Nations press office.
Maybe he wants them all to stay home – suits me fine – they are noit big enough on citizenship for my liking.
Matt Tang
Sure, there will always be students who don’t like their overseas experience, no matter what country they visit. Australia, England, U.S etc
The article should be more balanced by AT LEAST interviewing one or two of the many students who found their experience positive.
One article from the NYT and 3/4 quotations out of hundreds of thousands is not exactly indicative of every experience.
On balance, I think you’d find the cultural exchange positive overall for both countries.
Shanghaier
As a long time visitor and resident in China I can say that it also goes the other way. I have somewhat always felt left out when I was in China, even though I’m married with a Chinese and thus have a Chinese family.
And to my great concern I over time feel more and more left out, and also a growing hostility and disrespect for foreigners here in China. Not by all people, of course, but some.
Do not take me wrong, in the past there were an (unhealthy) overly respect for foreigners that I at that time disliked. I’m not missing it either, but I think it is swinging to far to the other side now.
Nylon V
It sounds like some of the kids in the NY Times article were having issues that a lot of American college freshmen struggle with. Living in a situation with people who want to party when you’re interested in studying, not uncommon. The colleges need to do a better job at helping them to cope.
JD
From my personal experience, I disagree with the authors in several aspects.
A lot of Chinese students I know speaks very fluent, or at least very good English. Almost all Chinese TA (at graduate level) will start teaching a class in their second or third year. Some students I taught had difficulties speaking English but still they could make themselves understood.
Also, I’ve been here for 3 and half years and I’ve never encountered any discrimination. It cold be because of I live in a midwest city, but on my numerous visit to DC/NYC/Boston/SF and other cities I’ve never encountered people treating me differently because I am Chinese. I guess sometimes it’s hard to tell if that’s their disposition or it’s because of race. I’ve never had any classmates or students disrespectful to me, or have heard of anything like that.
Last one, the Chinese youth are more considerate than their American counterpart? You mean, those little emperors who never thought of anybody but themselves? You mean the Chinese whose parents are paying for their tuition and dinner instead of the Americans who are paying for themselves?
Ksou
Today i was at starbucks near my college and this Chinese girl was hogging an entire table. Like she had her backpack on the table and everything . After i sat down and started typing for a few minutes she said somthing in Chinese and walked away .
Now acording to this article this is an example of how its such a huge problem Chinese students are in the US. Well this is incorrect .
For this ONE awkward rude experince , I’ve meet and known at least 5 Chinese students who were as polite as can be . One even told me that alot of students are graduating and returning to China to a very crappy job market . Fear mongering like this article needs to seriously stop . Heck I almost moved in with some Chinese students a few years ago .
I think a big part of the reason that Chinese students may see the US in a more negative light after living here maybe that they see American reality . Homelessness , poverty and other things that aren’t in Gossip Girl .
Relax, ok
Jennifer
Could somebody please explain, why the Chinese male students seem very easily getting angry, almost at every little thing? Is it because of their communication problem or is it the culture misunderstanding/barrier or is it just the way the Chinese male are?
Leonard R.
@Jennifer:
They have trouble finding a date.
Plus, they’re confused & frustrated.
Parents & grandparents treated them like little emperors.
But their future Chinese wives will treat them like hired servants.
And they have trouble finding a date in the US.
I can’t blame them for being angry.
This is a dumb article. It’s a dumb subject.
Drive by
I fail to see your logic. The language barrier, shyness, lack of communication skills and social experience are enough to make many Chinese students feel frustrated, male or female, with or without girlfriends or boyfriends.
MostJustWantPeace
Nah – only the ladies from Shanghai and Vietnamese women treat their husbands like hire-hands. The former have a very egregious reputation in Mainland China, while many of the latter have admitted openly that since they were young, their grandmothers have drilled the “husband domination” routine into their heads.
I am all for more power to the ladies. But I think we should have it at 50-50, not 30-70 wife-husband or husband-wife.
nirvana
I agree with the author that, if the majority of Chinese students in the US return home with “negative memories of their time in the United States”, it isn’t good. Especially when you consider other surprising remarks, such as:
-“U.S. colleges and universities will say just about anything in order to justify using Chinese students to plug growing budget holes”
-“all or most [Chinese student] are there to STUDY and not to be liked or dis-like” (Blogger Huang)
What a catastrophe! This would mean that the ideal conditions for rich knowledge and inter-cultural exchange would be reduced reciprocally to a mercantile operation. This would be ignoring that the greatest benefit of studying abroad is NETWORKING.
The question the author regretfully does not touch upon is: do we have the same syndromes with Chinese studying in UK, Germany, France,…?
Passerby
Go back and read ALL the articles written by this particular author, one can’t help but sees clearly in him signs of a self-hating Chinese who is struggling to fit in, in an English publication that is not particularly neutral when it comes to all things China.
a_canadian_observer
@Passerby: “Go back and read ALL the articles written by this particular author, one can’t help but sees clearly in him signs of a self-hating Chinese who is struggling to fit in, in an English publication that is not particularly neutral when it comes to all things China.”
Yup he sure is a china-hater. He doesn’t praise china at all. How could that be. :)
Justsayno
It’s okay for the author to be a china hater. After all there are plenty of things not to like about china. However the authors main job is that of an educator in china. To see a mid/high level educator bashing his own students as “time bombs” is truly disturbing. Its his job to ensure his students mental well being. In the us, teachers are fired over calling his students spoiled brats on Facebook. Since the author has shown so much contempt towards his own students maybe he should quit his job and become a full time china pundit.
Andao
Based on the NYT article, the biggest problem with Chinese studying abroad seems to be the lying and cheating that got them there to begin with. They don’t fit in because their English is bad? The article says 90% lie about recommendation letters, and 70% hire someone to write their personal statement in English.
If you can’t get in the university on your own merits, how can it be surprising that you don’t fit in? Obviously you are not the type of person who should be in American universities if you have to hire someone to forge your credentials.
N
If i got Chinese students in my group assignment, i would be annoyed, because most of the time they’re quiet and don’t contribute with ideas.
Peter
This article is far too one-sided. For decades now, Chinese students have been coming the US and basically falling in love with the country. The majority didn’t want to return to China after graduating. However, with the rising standard of living in China, why should so many students want to stay in the US – or have such a high opinion of the country(especially as it is becoming more socialist than China and it’s economy is in the crapper)?
Furthermore, there are many students studying in the US who enjoy the experience – especially those who deserve to be accepted… Most don’t!!! I have seen this first hand here in China – this country is mostly built on lies (as many others may be) – nearly all the students that I have spoke with cheat to get into US universities.
American stupidity has caused a massive international crisis and so many of us (American citizens) still have a chip on our shoulders. Combine this with lazy spoiled rich kids and it’s wonder there are problems.
Mystery
@Leonard R.: the Ms. Tang/cold-shoulder affair is an anecdote likely plucked from years of experience as an inferior outcast. The “cold-shoulder” effect is constant: you just get used to it. There are no Chinese professors, and therefore nobody you can trust. As a rural kid in Cambridge, my experience was similar to that of Ms. Tang. Like Ms. Tang, I spent three years and all my money learning only one thing: “I’m not one of them”.
In my alma mater, slow, post-war reforms allowed women to start taking university classes (not degrees, just classes) from 1950 onwards. Even though the reforms were finished in the 1970s, it was not until the 1990s that women were fully recognized academically and integrated socially (the final step of reform in the 1970s was unfortunately marred with anti-feminist protests; and Cambridge women’s colleges were, until recently, heavily underfunded). This is somewhat echoed by the mixed reaction to students from mainland China today.
In the 2000s, my alma mater slowly started accepting students from a “range” of cultural backgrounds—even those from tiny villages. I’ve seen first-hand that the results have so far been disastrous. Only when both rural students and the university work to bridge the vast culture gap that exists between them will these rural kids ever feel integrated—or even learn anything at all. And, like women’s integration, that work will take decades to complete.
“‘They pretend to welcome you but they do not” is exactly the same quote I picked up on when reading the NYT/Chronicle article a few days ago. As a rural student in Cambridge, I felt this first hand. I couldn’t agree more.
The pioneering Chinese students of today are the “women” and “Welsh” of the ’70s and ’00s. The ones who break the ice suffer the most… but they make it easier, not harder, for everyone else who follows.
Could it be that to learn more about China, you have to go to the West (and hate it) first? That certainly worked for me. And I’m White.
jackd345
definitely agree that this isn’t a great article, by the diplomat’s standards….
Chinese students are “much more polite and considerate than their American peers” – perhaps the most ridiculous sweeping statement about Westernerns since… well since I got back from China about two months ago…
To be honest I think the real reason that Chinese students don’t integrate is that they rarely have any intention of staying in the West; the Chinese who can afford to study abroad are the ones whose families have done pretty well out of the last thirty years, are well set-up for a career in China, and for whom foreign education is just another boost on that route, not something that opens up new options like it was 20 years ago.
Old Wolf
To be honest I think the real reason that Chinese students don’t integrate is that they rarely have any intention of staying in the West
And what is wrong with going to America to get your degree and leaving America once you’re done so you can use that degree in the country of your choice? Why should you be obligated to stay in America just because you obtained your degree there?
Cam
From my college experiences ( I reveal a little here – I spent my time in 3 different colleges in 3 different regions and a few semesters in Japan), mainland Chinese students clearly have serious problem with adaption to American college life as they tended to see they are different from the rest of their fellow students. They created the ghettos for their own by sticking together. One easy thing to spot: go to the cafeteria in universities during lunch time, you can see what I am saying here. The Chinese students were very hard working students, I must admit but they were lonely for sure. I don’t know the root cause of this, may be something in their mind that set them apart, and unique for being Chinese.
Michael
This is such an unbalanced article. What about the views of the americans towards the chinese students studying in american universities? Or for that matter chinese students studying in an asian country who irks asian students just as much with their arrogance and self-deluded belief that they’re better than everyone else?
As an asian (in a south-east asian country) I have encountered first hand how Chinese (from China) students who ‘participate’ in group assignments by letting others do the work (under the pretence of having poor English or really having a poor command of the English language) and then wanting to claim credit for the work when they have done nothing for it.
And yes, plagiarism seems to mean nothing in their eyes and ’sharing’ resources (literally chunks of essays/assignment)is fair game for them, till they get caught out for not doing their work.
They keep to their groups and only under duress (threat of not getting any marks/points for group discussion/presentation) forces them out of their shell temporarily. Other students do not avoid them. They do it all on their own by refusing to speak in Chinese (strange, given that they have excellent command of the language) and forcing their English onto their fellow students, who struggle to understand them or help them.
It’s not a clash of civilisation. It’s just downright incompetence and selfishness on the part of the chinese students and they know it, and they are getting away with it.
Asian-American
Oh give me a break. Take it from an Asian-American—-if you go around perceiving yourself as an ‘oppressed minority’ or a ‘victim’ of American Xenophobia–you will find such attitudes.
Can America be more tolerant, respectful, and understanding of the world and its foreign visitors (including China)—ABSOLUTELY!
But the fact of the matter, is that if you CHOOSE to come to study in the United States, then: a) you must recognize that going to an American institution means learning about new values and ideas, not just memorizing information and getting a fancy diploma; and b) you have to respect and adapt to the norms of your host nation.
I have had to adapt as the son of immigrants. I have had to adapt to the foreign countries I lived in, while in the US military.
You said it—the problem is not American insensitivity or America as some kind of ‘jealous nation in decline’. It is with Chinese xenophobia, nationalism, and racism. China is always thinking itself as the perennial victim of the white man. How does China treat is neighbors? It’s own ethnic minorities?
The President of the United States is the son of a single mother and a Kenyan immigrant—not the pampered son of an elite official. Gary Locke is a Chinese-AMERCIAN ambassador to China.
GREATNESS is more than money and power–it’s about values and character. Of course, China and its culture/civilization/people are GREAT. Now’s the time to start acting like it.
a_canadian_observer
@Asian-American: I totally agree with you. But judging by the way china (and its representatives in these blogs and in the diplomatic circle) behave(s), inside and outside of china, no-one has any reason to trust or to respect them.
Huang
@a-canadian-observer,
Although any contradicting comments against Chinese bloggers would both be helpful and constructive, its a shame to have non emitted from every single one of your counter remarks. All the same expression of that ugly bitterness because of China.
Now, thats too pitiful.
sino
@Huang
Try not to bring the 5000 years civilization into the discussion as our current social behaviour is a big disgrace to our ancestors. There must be reasons why other countries despise us, and we need to correct that ASAP.
Qing dynasty’s arrogance had brought us disgrace, foreign invasions, cowardness, disrespect of others etc. We have big jobs ahead to rectify all those mistakes, OURSELVES!
So stop pointing fingers at others.
Huang
@sino,or(just another pretending to be Chinese)
There is absolutely NOTHING disgraceful or wrong for having the courage and knowledge in recognizing China long and rich history especially for a Chinese person Han or non-Han alike. On the other hand, it would be shamefully and disgraceful for anyone to be fearful for merely acknowledging his or her cultural heritage for all the wrong and stupid reasons because of cowardice.
You might feel ashame to be who and what you are, no-one on this Earth in their right mind would feel the way you felt about what ever cultural background you may be coming from.
Of course, if someone brag too much about their culture, it naturally would attract distasteful responses from others. Since your pretentious tricks(spoke as though you are Chinese) failed to convince anyone because its full of the same old jealousies some people have toward China, I recommend you start un-tangle your heart and mind. Only by doing so will you see the World in its natural and true form and NOT the twisted and distorted views you experience since the day everything about China brought bitterness to you.
In short, as the saying goes, “Be what really are and don’t pretend because people know”.
sino
@Huang
You are making a lot of groundless assumption, and at certain point, don’t really understand your logics. If you are patriotic Chinese, then contribute your talent here in China, not overseas. Can u do that? I doubt so. Most of the Chinese immigrated to US, UK, Ausi etc in the last 20 years were probably came from wealthy officials, we all know pretty well how they got their money. When these group of chinese are racially discriminated, they suddenly become patriotic and want the entire 1.3 billion people to back them up. When their issues finally get resolved, I doubt they will even care if their 1.3 billion comrades dead or alive, as long as they themselves are ok.
jim1980
“You are making a lot of groundless assumption, and at certain point, don’t really understand your logics. If you are patriotic Chinese, then contribute your talent here in China, not overseas. Can u do that? I doubt so. Most of the Chinese immigrated to US, UK, Ausi etc in the last 20 years were probably came from wealthy officials, we all know pretty well how they got their money. When these group of chinese are racially discriminated, they suddenly become patriotic and want the entire 1.3 billion people to back them up. When their issues finally get resolved, I doubt they will even care if their 1.3 billion comrades dead or alive, as long as they themselves are ok.”
Sino, I think that you mean well, but your statement is not factual correct. This is from Chinese American who immigrant to US when he was youngster.
1) Most Chinese immigrant for 20 y6ears did NOT came from wealthy officials. Vastly majority came from Chinese top universities (for example, Peking University or Nanjing University). They mostly came US mostly based on meritocracy. Vast majority studied in graduate school. In fact, there is separation class in China between academic class vs government official class.
2) Only in the past five years or so, many more wealthy families decide to send their kids to US, mostly came after Obama election. They studied in undergraduate and pay full price. Some of them came from wealthy family but most of them came from Chinese big cities like Beijing or ShangHai.
3) As far as racism in the US, your theory is not correct. US has always been racially conscious country. In the 1880s, US population held discriminated against Irish. In the 1900s to 1910s, US population held discriminated against Southern European (Italian). Of course, now those people has been assimilated to majority white. Asian got a lot of discrimination before the WWII (i.e. Chinese Exclusive Law). However, the attitude changes a lot in the 90s as a lot of Asian Americans get into Ivy League, Wall Street and create IT firms in silicon valley. Now, Asian American in general don’t get much discriminated in big cities, but maybe still got in more conservative area in the US. Now, people who got most discriminated in the US are Black and Hispanic group.
4) Very few Chinese student got solely discriminated because they are Chinese because Chinese are viewed together with other Asian groups (Korean, Vietnamese).
Most Americans just can’t tell whether you are Koreans, Chinese or Vietnamese.
5) There are some snobbish Chinese, but that’s not that difference from Koreans I meet in 90s before the Asian economic crisis. As Chinese used to their wealthy, they too will show modesty (I hope).
6) Oversea Chinese (mainly Hong Kong, Taiwan, some US) has contributed huge changes in Chinese development. They were first and only investors for China when US and other countries stop investing in China after June 4, 1989.
Huang
@Asian American,
While there are Chinese students who found it difficult adjusting to the new environments,certainly there are others who found and learned new and interesting things during their studies in the US.
While some Chinese students are snobbish, there are others who find the behavior distasteful. besides,snobbery is a social disease that recognize no national boundaries and are equally looked upon with the same negative light.
While you are not being fair to yourself in the generalization that the Chinese view themselves as “the perrenial victim of the white man”, I am affraid you are wrong on that.
While you mistaken the true relationships between China and its neighbors,I can tell you that relations have never been this good.
While you know very little about China’s minorities , I can enlighten you that China is the ONLY country in the entire World whose ethnic minorities were and are protected and their cultures preserved till this day-just look around.
While you were presented with the China in a distorted light, I am now telling you that China was,is, and will never consider itself in any way arrogant or “something special” as others do as we speak.
While the Chinese civilization is the only longest surviving civilization on Earth, the Chinese never stop trying to learn new things. Only those arrogant nations believe they are too smart already and stop learning.
toyo
I’m an international Chinese student and a sophomore in college. I agree that the article is really one-sided, and the from my observation that there’re many reasons why Chinese students keep to themselves.
First is the language barrier. It doesn’t mean that we can’t express ourselves clearly or understand our peers and professors; the problem is that we speak English too seriously: we lack a sense of humor in English which makes it hard to react to others in casual conversation.
Second is the cultural gap. When a group of strangers first meet each other, they tend to talk about themselves and then things they all know like sports, hit songs, videos and TV shows, which I had no idea of when I first got here. I even didn’t know Katy Perry (this might not be true with all the Chinese students, but I’m just not a huge fan of western culture in general), and I still don’t understand the rule of American football. Even if I hang out with my American friends quite often, I still don’t recognize all the stars and shows they mention.
The third reason is that, most Chinese students (especially undergrads) are only here for study. They don’t want to move to US since they can live better back in China. As a result, they have no strong intention to establish intimate relationship with American students, which definitely takes much more effort than that with Chinese students.
Finally, there’re just too many Chinese students and we don’t necessarily need to push ourselves out of our comfort zone to maintain a normal social life. I have some Chinese friends who came to US for high school and made many American friends there, but stepped back to the circle of Chinese students in college. People tend to choose the easier way.
Old Wolf
The third reason is that, most Chinese students (especially undergrads) are only here for study. They don’t want to move to US since they can live better back in China. As a result, they have no strong intention to establish intimate relationship with American students, which definitely takes much more effort than that with Chinese students.
Quoted for truth.
sino
If most of the heads of gov departments can be as righteous as President Hu who has high moral standard, and polite too, then Chinese people will not be considered as a “problem” around the world. But it’s been estimated that only 3% of Chinese contributes to the bad image of China. If we can quanrantine these 3% by restricting them from leaving the country (and take their money away so no more harm can be created by them), then there will no need to raise this issue to a political level.
Parenting skill is probably the main problem in China, as one might easily see an elderly man behaving improperly in public in China (yelling, stealing, etc), regardless of in rural areas or in cities. This bad behaviour will directly influence his son/daughter and grandkids, and the social order will be what we see today.
Huang
@sino?,
A lot of bitterness because of China again. Now, thats “too bad!”.
jim1980
I know people don’t want to say it.
But I am going to say it.
US is racial consciously country. It divided people into White, Black, Asian and Hispanic.
The reality is that Asian in general is being discriminated in US too badly. If anybody should complain about discrimination in US, it is Hispanic or African American groups who have biggest complain.
However, for many young and wealthy Chinese who has anything in China came to US the first time and experience discrimination for the first time, of course, they have negative impression of US.
jim1980
“The reality is that Asian in general is being discriminated in US too badly”
missing “not”.
“The reality is that Asian in general is being not discriminated in US too badly”
By the way, I know that the OP likes to talk about new Chinese student. However, if he asks many Chinese who has live in the US for many years and has US citizenship, many of them too have similar view of US as well.
So clearly not it is not language or experience issue.
Asian-American
To the ‘patriotic Chinese’ here: Is China (and are Chinese) completely infallible? Is Chinese society not capable of ’self-criticism?’. I think Sino and Toyo have the right ideas here. China and Chinese are not a monolith that thinks in unison (contrary, ironically, to what the Party and American xenophobes will have the world believe). Chinese students are HUMANS–some bad, some good. I think you need to lighten up and not jump down everyone’s throat about the ‘glory of Chinese civilization’ for every slight criticism. What about the toddler incident in Foshan? What about the Chinese student who decapitated his girlfriend at Virginia Tech 2 yrs ago? Of course, it is ridiculous to judge a whole nation on the basis of a handful of monsters. However, I believe that compassion (and how a society treats its most vulnerable members) is the marker of a great civilization—every country is falling down in that regard, some more than others.
As for the ‘America in decline’ perspective—if you (Chinese student or anyone else) feel so contemptuous about American values and people, then don’t come. There’s plenty of smart people in the world that are willing to take your place who don’t have a Xiao Huangdi attitude.
jim1980
@Asian American.
As a fellow Asian American, I question several your points.
1) I know that you tolerate racism in the America. You are able to move on as you posted before does not give your right to tell other minorities hey should tolerate racism in the America. Racism is wrong and should be condemned.
2) On the one sentence you mentioned Chinese are individual. Yet you spend next three sentences talking something a few Chinese did wrong as if action of a few somehow reflect the billions of people. What’s more irony about you are using Virginia Tech incident. Guess what that incident reflect bad on you more than anything else, a fellow Asian American since most Americans can not tell the difference between Vietnamese or Chinese or Asian Americans.
3) New arrived Chinese students are guest for this country. They paid a fortune to study here and mostly like to stay only four years then go back to China. They want that US degree but not the life in the US. IMO, They don’t have to assimilate to US if they don’t want. The only thing they need to do maybe only lower expectation of US college life (i.e. no every college life is like that of Gossip Girls). It is us in the States need to make them feel welcome.
sino
@jim1980
Thanks for responding to my comment in great details. This shows that you are serious on the discussion, and wish all comments work towards a positive direction, that eventually produce some working solutions to the nation/country/people/world etc.
Well, the topic “The Clash of Civilizations?” in this forum really brings out many different views from all readers, it shows that everyone here is concerned about one thing: your identity.
You brought up 6 points that some I do agree, and some I remain skeptical, and the “Chinese Exclusion Act” you mentioned was probably passed in US congress sometime in 1850s, that we really have to give it a deep thought. All Chinese gov officals must understand why this act was implemented, what caused it to happen, and how the word Chinese was “invented”…..we have to find out the root to all problems we face in our society (or the world).
It may look complex, but it can be done.
Mengyang
The article is too general. You haven’t done any research on the different value and worldview and do some anlysis on the research outcome, How can you draw any conclusion about it?