China and Vietnam have stood down a little from their confrontation over disputed waters in the South China Sea, signing an agreement that will include the setting up of a hotline between the two countries’ capitals to resolve crises and the creation of semiannual talks aimed at finding ‘a mutually acceptable basic and long-term approach to solving maritime disputes.’
But Vietnam wasted no time in firing the next shot in the ongoing territorial dispute. As Vietnamese Communist Party Chairman Nyugen Phu Trong signed the agreement in Beijing, President Truong Tan Sang was negotiating another agreement in New Delhi on Wednesday that will double down on India’s support for Vietnam’s maritime claims.
The Indian agreement will expand joint oil exploration in Vietnamese waters, bringing Indian state-owned enterprises into the disputed area, and committing India to supporting Vietnam’s position. China has warned India about getting involved before, fearing isolation over its territorial claims. Tuesday’s agreement may be a blow for the Philippines’ effort to organize a united ASEAN stance against China’s position, but a state visit by Vietnam to the Philippines announced for March will give President Benigno Aquino a chance to persuade Vietnam to join its proposed framework.
Indian and Vietnamese leaders dismissed suggestions that the new agreement is a rebuff to China, using the argument that Vietnam’s position is clearly right. President Truong said in a Hanoi interview that ‘All cooperation projects between Vietnam and other partners, including ONGC, in the field of oil and gas are located on the continental shelf within the exclusive economic zone and under the sovereign rights and jurisdiction of Vietnam, entirely in conformity with international laws, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.’
Vietnam’s oil deal with India comes as part of a broad raft of agreements, including an extradition agreement and other economic initiatives. Coming only a day after the country made its effort to appease China, recommitting to joint oil exploration is a bold step – even more so considering that China is Vietnam's largest trading partner, with a total volume of $27 billion in 2010 – about ten times its $2.7 billion volume with India.
Vietnam’s apparent commitment to India illustrates a growing challenge of China’s rise – as it gains in power and assertiveness, China faces a serious risk of driving its neighbours (and in Communist Vietnam, comrades), into strategic alliances aimed at balancing and possibly containing the rising superpower.
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Phil
Now china must regret very much its aggressive moves, in the last few years, against these countries: Japan, S Korea (N. Korea), Philippine, Vietnam, US. Recent developments show that some alliances against China are being formed. Big mistake for CCP when they think US and Japan are so weak and China is so strong so that nobody dares oppose china.
Frank
I do not think any Chinese leader think that way. That is why they are busy building warships and airplanes.
John Chan
@Phil,
Although a thug can blame the victim loudly, but the fact that a thug is still a thug, and no matter how many time he blames the victim, the thug cannot cover the crime he committed. US, Japan, S Korea (N. Korea), Philippine, Vietnam, and India are the thugs blaming the victim.
Thugs must be reined in to keep the world peace and prosper.
Tom Tran
Please don’t tickle me.
yang zi
Vietnam is playing double games. it is either has two factions in the party or just playing for the time.
on the other hand, it may all make sense. Vietnam and India can continue to drill, as long as it is not in 9 dotted line.
China and Vietnam laid out a road map for solving the disputes. but cable cutting will happen again if Vietnam venture into 9 dotted line to drill.
Frank
Vietnam would not allow Indians to disturb the peace with China. Regardless of what Vietnamese say, they are very afraid of a war against China.
Vietnamese leaders understand that they can beat China 100 times, the history of China will not change one bit. China only has to beat Vietnam once; the history of Vietnam will be altered forever.
crimsonleaf
I don’t think that is always correct.
If the war kaleidoscopes international opposition and there is economic blowback the whole ordeal could destabilize China. Even a minor engagement could be used by other countries in the world to simply use “force majeur” post support of Vietnam. This would be very destabilizing to China internally.
Frank
“Could” is well used.
A defeat by China will CERTAINLY alter the history of Vietnam forever.
John Chan
I just wonder why Vietnam, Philippines and Japan do not understand such simple theory. All China is need to beat those western lackeys only once, then it takes them one thousand years to reverse the effect of defeat if they are lucky.
nirvana
@John Chan
You speak like a US general.
“Tell the Vietnamese they’ve got to draw in their horns or we’re going to bomb them back into the Stone Age.”
–Gen. Curtis LeMay, May 1964
Phil
My phrase above is for my honorable John Chan.
Frank
Smart move for both countries. Vietnam does have to live in fears of an invasion. China can concentrate dealing with the Philippines.
1) Philippine is a lot weaker than Vietnam. Philippine troops can be routed easily out of South China Sea.
2) Philippine has mutual protection treaty with USA. If Americans do not help Philippine, they will not help Taiwan either. A big shock wave to East Asia.
3) If USA is helping Philippine, China can support the Philippines Communists in the South in return. Philippine will be in civil war soon. That will drag USA into the third Asia war. Very soon, American public will question their leaders wisdom of borrow their children’s money fight for other people’s cause.
4) By no means, Americans will go to war directly against China for 6 tiny Spratly Islands occupied by Philippine. A direct war will lead to mutually assured destruction.
5) The Zhong Ye Island occupied by the Philippines has an airport and can be enlarged to include a harbor. Taking Zhong Ye island will provide much needed Spratly navy base for China.
Phil
Cheap politics haha
If politics are that simple, then everyone here can be politicians then Frank can be called Mr President -)
Viet
@Frank and yang zi & any other Chinese dot dot…line dreammers:
Here is a little Vietnamese poetry for you. Nam quốc sơn hà (Hán tự: 南國山河, mountains and rivers of the Southern country) is a famous Vietnamese poem which was written in Kanji in 1077 by the Vietnamese general Lý Thường Kiệt (李常傑), asserting the sovereignty of Vietnam’s rulers over its land. He is the famous general, who defeated the Song invasion. Memorize this to avoid following your ancestors’ shattered dreams of conquering Vietnam.
南國山河南帝居
截然定分在天書
如何逆虜來侵犯
汝等行看取敗虛
Below is the English translation
Over Mountains and Rivers of the South, reigns the Emperor of the South
As it stands written forever in the Book of Heaven
How dare those barbarians invade our land?
Your armies, without pity, will be annihilated.
Frank
Most of these generals or kings of Vietnam were actually Chinese. In 1000s, the real Vietnamese were primitive people, they cannot read or write.
Because of that many Chinese regards Vietnamese as their cousins. This is another good reason that China want to work out a peace deal with Vietnam.
yang zi
Exactly. The glory history of Vietnam is actually written by Chinese kings. I have no idea why Vietnamese are so proud of it. it is twisted.
Vietnam is literally under the thumbs of Chinese geology. it is better to be friendly with China. the south Vietnamese are losers of wars between North and South Vietnam, yet they are most nationalistic.
Cam
@frank – again, you forgot your evening pills, Frank. Take your pills now, wipe off the foaming on your mouth and calm down. We all understand how supper strong the Chinese were. Based on my knowledge, i would say there are lots of Chinese who have Mongol blood in them so do you have some, Frank?
John Chan
@Cam,
The Editor of the Diplomat said he won’t tolerate underhand belittling attack against individual, nation, or race, how can you are doing exactly what the Editor promised to stamp out here? Are you the Editor in disguise?
a_canadian_observer
Frank’s and yangzi’s mindset hasn’t evolved for centuries. This is the fruit of the 5000 years of civilization. Priceless!
Actually, it was the Viet that created the writing, which china stole/adopted.
And, ironically, people like Frank (southern china – similar to the Viets) used to be considered by central-plains china as barbarians are now doing everything against their long lost siblings.
John Chan
SingTao Daily reported that Philippines made strong protest against the deal inked between Vietnam and China. Philippines said the issues in South China Sea could not be determined by Vietnam and China alone. Benigno Aquino was reportedly said he would raise the protest to VN president when he visits VN.
It is puzzling why is Philippines dead against peaceful solution of disputes in SCS? Is it the new warships it got from USA and SKorea allows it to decide to settle the disputes with force? Or are Filipinos inherent bellicose and they need killing to quench their ancestors’ head hunting desires? It is simply puzzling.
Sinodefender
@ a_canadian_observer ancient Vietnamese writing before Chinese arrival(http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?/topic/33380-ancient-vietnamese-writing/) doesn’t look at all like Chinese characters and is phonetic,Chinese writing is derived from Shang and previous cultures… I suppose Confucius gained his knowledge from Bai yue if Chinese writing originated from Vietnam…
Chinese from the central plains considered Bai yue barbarians,Southern Han Chinese are not Bai yue,Chinese either eradicated or assimilated them. Southern Han Chinese are not going to rebel against PRC and form some pan Yue kingdom,Southern Han Chinese trace their ancestry to northern refugees not Bai yue. At one time Southern Han Chinese viewed Northern Han Chinese as barbarians since nomads established dynasties.
John Chan
@Viet,
Your English translation is not right, the last two lines of the poet 南國山河 should be read as:
Unfortunately there is a foreign invasion,
Come and see how I beat the invader.
It seems Lý Thường Kiệt was trying to raise the morality his troops in 南國山河, probably his troops was scared during that time, 南國山河 was the tool for Ly to reverse a desperate situation.
Huang
@Viet,
That is indeed one great poem written by General Ly(or Lee in Chinese) centuries ago. It a vivid reflection of the sentiment the general toward would be invaders during this life time. It showed the nationalistic feeling of a Vietnamese general that all Vietnamese should be proud to learn from.
For better understandings between China and Viet Nam, more of these ancient poems and written texts should taught to Vietnamese youths so that they have a better insight into the long lasting relations and inter-actions over the centuries.
China and Viet Nam have more in common than are differences and the future looks bright for both sides to advance their shared inspirations in building better social structures and improving the livelihoods of their respective PEOPLES.
P.S. “Viet Nam Trung Hoa–Song lien Song,Nui Lien Nui” should be the first step to a beautiful bridge between two ever-lasting friendships and neighbors.
Huang
As the title suggested,” China, Viet Nam inked deals” deals and co-operations between China and all others trading partners will resume in due time. This is just a minor deviation or detour from the main path shared and understood by all Asian countries on their way to a stable and properous Asia. Failure to recognize the main and ONLY objective of the time(a century of advancements for Asia and other developing economies)is NOT an option.
Obviuosly,there are flash-points and potential disputes of catastrophic consequences-but all of these can be resolved through dialogues and other peaceful and rational means. Rationality is what kept the whole episode from spinning out of control as we have noticed during and after US secretary of State’s overtures “a bow of hot and sour soup ” and “The return of the US to the Asia-Pacific region” that more or less was responsible for these distractions or deviations from the main course.
Evidently, each and every point of disputes or dis-agreemants can be traced back to their respective origins. Viet Nam has its own particular reason in its new and revolutionary military,diplomatic,and economic omni-directional deal makings-and China should encourage this new steps from Viet Nam. The Phillipines is facing its own domestic politics and its growing economic uncertainties the new government is starting to decipher. The Indian,on the other hand, is seizing just another opportunity as it came along and is totally un-sure about what would come next while struggling to contain the fall=outs on corruptions in its own house. In the case of Burma, there seems to be some problems with the Chinese financed and built hydro-dam project that recently been halted pending enlighten ideas. Eastward to Japan, the tone of the time is on “China threats” which elements in Japan are using to advance their own cause–are what they are pursuing are just empty dreams or nightmares is too early to conclude. Across the pacific, we have the one and only “US of America” whose presidential election cycle is approaching and it usually mean lots and lots of rhetorics directed at China this time around.
All in all, all of these are just artifial at best and un-productive at worst that is clouding the main route forward for every countries in this complex equation.
Interestingly, history have shown that these human natures can create and can definitely destroy at the same. Lets hope the economic and financial crisis of this century does not push the global environment into another regretable mistake all countries will be sorry for.
Finally, emotions and rationalities can do good and they can also do bad to every country. It is important for the captains of every ships in the sea to be alert and sober while navigating in this brief but dangerous fog because any accident would involved at least two or more ships being damaged or even sunk.
Frank
Vietnam was conquered or created for over 1000 years by our ancestors.
Zen
“Conquered” means there is an independence of Vietnam before China came. The second point is Vietnam has 1000 years of independence since that time. The third is the fact that China can not assimilate Vietnam even in more than 1000s trying that and up to now Chinese still keep in mind that Vietnam was created by their ancestor same as the truth of human were created by monkey.
Patriot
That right but after that we created our own country, own culture, own language and since then for 1000 years we refuse to become a part of China ever again. The Chinese could come and try to take OUR ISLANDS again, we sunk Chinese war ships before and we could do that again.
John Chan
@Patriot,
Last few sea contests, China’s torpedo patrol boats sunk Vietnamese destroys, corvettes, etc. at no loss of it own.
nirvana
@Yang zi,
The two blocks (127 and 128) do overlap significantly with the 9-dotted line. It would be interesting to see whether ONGC Videsh will drill inside or outside the overlap area. If they drill inside, there is no (expensive) cable to cut, but an oil rig to sink. A “panicked” fishing boat would not do the trick anymore. Perhaps you could ask the very imaginative China Energy Fund Committee which type of war ship is needed to start the “tiny-scale” war?
Interestingly enough, Brunei and Malaysia have recently announced that they are going to do join seismic exploration in the Spratlys area, near a feature called the Louisa Reef. I haven’t heard any protest from China, officially or else. Let’s see whether Chinese patrollers and/or the fishing boat will perform their “normal duty” in this case or not.
Yang zi
If they do it inside 9 dotted line, china should confiscate what ever is there and use force if necessary.
Leonard R.
I agree. China should confiscate the US Seventh Fleet when it sails inside the 9 dotted line.
Frank’s plan has promise too, the PLAN versus the Seventh Fleet in the West Philippines Sea.
It’s an idea whose time has come.
We have the (9 dotted) line in the sand, a new Rubicon. And China has commanded the US to stay out.
Of course, that means the US should rush in there & make itself at home. And that’s what it’s doing.
So it’s showdown at the OK Corral. It’s the Little Emperors versus the gun-slinging cowboys.
Place your bets.
yang zi
as if you are US president.
Phil
Sorry Leonard, there is nothing to bet on. As usual with china, it is big talk and too chicken to do anything. Remember last year during N-S Korea crisis, US and S Korea military drill so close to china coast, did china dare do anything? I don’t think china will ever become super power, its economy mainly driven by export and heavily dependent on US and EU while its domestic problems, discontent with CCP are so wide spread within the population like timing bombs.
I want to see how long CCP can play the patriotic card in order to divert its internal problem and to keep hanging on their powers. I hope that CCP leaders won’t drag the world to a WWIII
Huang
The Seventh fleet, now this is one tough customer to deal with. The formidable US Navy’s Seventh Fleet adored and worshipped as the ultimate rescuer to all dis-comforts on the high seas in the Pacific. The one and only police of the Pacific.
The PLA will have a tough time confronting such a well-trained and superbly equipped naval power in the pacific.
Does the PLA navy have to be worry or concern about the Seventh Fleet ? It would insane and foolish not to. However, the PLA Navy while knowing the differences of strenghts and weaknesses, would understand that it is NOT impossible to defend and even overcome against a more powerful force–since a weapon is only as good as the skillfulness of the soldier using that weapon.
SCdad07
ONGC renounced on block 127.
Huy Duong
David,
The Vietnamese text of the agreement can be found here
http://www.vietnamplus.vn/Home/Nguyen-tac-giai-quyet-van-de-tren-bien-VietTrung/201110/109066.vnplus
Point 3 said, “Nếu tranh chấp liên quan đến các nước khác, thì sẽ hiệp thương với các bên tranh chấp khác”, which means that disputes that involves countries other than Vietnam and China will need negotiations with those countries.
So the principle that a multilateral dispute must be resolved via multilateral negotiations still stands.
Huy Duong
Regarding blocks 127 and 128 which India and Vietnam will explore, I have put a map of those blocks there:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105596912692647073892/Maps#5656773149993390226
@Yang Zi,
You can see that those blocks overlaps with your beloved U-shaped line.
@All,
You can see how arrogant China is to make noises and threaten Vietnam with war, when blocks 127 and 128 are so close to Vietnam and so far from China, so far from the disputed Paracels and Spratlys (which are where the green dots are).
yang zi
so sad, India will cry for its loss. a better strategy is to let India drill, then confiscate the oil platform.
nirvana
@ Huy Duong
This was really helpful.
For the avoidance of any misunderstanding, may I suggest that you change the legend “U-shape line” into “9-dotted line (approximate)”. This is to emphasize the undefined character and ambiguous meaning of the line. This would be consistent with China’s official position for 65 years. Also, I think you should add “hypothetical” to the the legend “equidistant”.
For completeness, I would appreciate if you could add markers for Louisa Reef and the Reed Bank, respectively.
@Yang zi,
Before China can perform openly any law enforcement somewhere, it has to define precisely the boundary within which this law applies. Then it has to proclaim this boundary and the law internationally.
yang zi
nirvana …
how do you know block 127/128 overlaps 9 dotted line if it is not clearly define?
nirvana
@Yang zi,
Because the overlap area is very significant the accurate knowledge of the line is not necessary to say that there is an overlap (look at the map provided by Huy Duong). But if a line is a boundary between two exclusive zones then drilling a few miles East or West can make a difference. This is why UNCLOS lines are accurately defined.
Chí Phèo
Vietnamese leaders treasure their peace so they do the best to keep things go smoothly with China, politically. But each and every Vietnamese is angry.
We know how valuable peace is, but in the past, present or future, we all know that China never abandon their dream of being ’super’ and ‘hyper’ power of the world (psychologically understandable – the sick man needs pills), and in order to reach those mad status, they won’t care of stepping on their friend and brother bodies.
It is bad for China if they turn their arrogance attitude toward their peaceful comrade Vietnam (who only wish to live in peace to solve their very problem of healthy develop :)), because the comrade is tough, he can keep China busy for years while the rest of the world is doing finishing work, tearing the Hyper Power apart.
The best strategy now for China is to say sorry to the World for drawing that stupid nine dots in Bien Dong (or South China Sea, or West Philippines Sea).
yang zi
The most belligerent Vietnamese are south Vietnamese, losers of Vietnam war.
Chí Phèo
And what is the relation between South Vietnam and this article? Were they the “Hyper Power” we are talking about?
Huang
The population in the Southern half of Viet Nam are more inclined to their immediate day-to-day lives. The Southern Vietnamese are less formal than their Northern counterparts in many respects. The Northern Vietnamese are generally formal and more incline to work in government institutions,educational departments,and other business and clerical carrers. The Northern spoken languages or tones are used on radios and television broadcasts.
During the Viet Nam war, the VietCong in the South were small scattered groups of fighters while the North’s armed forces were organized regular army groups. After the fall of Saigon in 1975, the North Vietnamese regular army were sent South into every Southern provinces and set up their camps and regional posts.
There were power struggles between the Southern VietCong former fighters and their recently sent South counterparts a few years after Communist Viet Nam took over the control of the whole nation. The outcome was expectedly simple-the Southerns were no match to their Northern brothers’ organized and better equipped units.
Today, the Prime Minister of Viet Nam is a southerner. I bet he felt alone in every meetings in the capital,Hanoi when surrounded by everyone speaking the Northern tone.
Cam
@yang zi – which one is the worst loser?
The South Vietnamese, the loser of the Vietnam war to their Northern brothers
Or the Chinese, the loser of any wars to the Japanese for the last 200 years.
Frank
If our brothers in Vietnam leave us alone, we will leave you alone.
Vietnam was left alone for over 1000 years. If we can work out the peace deal like this, we will leave you alone for another 1000 years.
Do not trust me. Read our 5000 years history.
Viet
Leaving you alone doesn’t mean doing nothing while the Chinese robs our land and sea so stop your 9 dotted nonsense and reckless action.Then, we could treat you as a good neighbor.
a_canadian_observer
@Frank: your 5000 years of history has produced people like you? Priceless!
John Chan
In the last two hundred some years, Canada has yet produce a single real Canadian, people in Canada are still the royal subjects of Her Majesty The Queen Elizabeth II.
Frank
He is an East Indian Canadian.
East Indian gentleman
@frank,
So cheap my poor commie!Back to debate, please! Don’t talk garbage here!
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan: You forgot Dr. Norman Bethune, whom the chinese cherish? Sad!
Canada has contributed much more to the world in 200 years than china in a thousand years. And check out the link below before you badmouth Canada.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/02/24/17395606.html
People in the world respect Canada and Canadian people. I doubt they feel the same about china and mainland chinese.
Andre Sauvageot
Vietnam has a heroic history of fighting against foreign occupations, i.e., China, France, Japan, France again, United States, and Khmer Rouge raids into Vietnam, followed by a large scale attack on Vietnam by China against Vietnam in 1979 after the “Peoples Army Vietnam toppled the Khmer Rouge from power ending their genocidal reign of terror. Vietnam always prefers peaceful settlements rather than armed conflict, but are ready to fight if necessary. Hopefully, Vietnam’s intelligent policies to gain international support for their sovereignty in the Eastern Sea will succeed. China’s violations of other countries territorial waters and islands is ultimately not even in China’s best interests.
Frank
Well said.
Vietnam is just another smaller China. At least they behave alike.
a_canadian_observer
Ditto!
Sam
China also has a heroic history of fighting against foreign occupations, i.e.,Vietnam, Japan, America.
Cam
@Sam – tell me since when Vietnam and America occupied China? Can you read? Or you just read books, the CCP wrote for Chinese people only?
Sam
I just want to say the author keeps extremely-biased minds to China, and you are a victim which
suffers from socialization of western mass media.
yang zi
India and Vietnam are easier to deal because they share land border with China. China should be prepared to act, regardless what ever noises it hear.
Frank
Philippine is a lot weaker than Vietnam. If you look at the google satellite photos, the Spratly Islands Occupied by Philippines have far less troops than Vietnamese Islands.
Kicking Filipinos out of South China Sea has far deeper implications to Taiwan reunifications because their treaty with USA.
Philippine has weaker government and communist rebels which can be explored. Vietnam is a communist country already. The possibility of a warm US-Vietnam tie is very low.
yang zi
Frank, a short navy conflict with Philippine is fine, but China cannot manage escalation well if US fleet is involved (even though I doubt it will directly, it mostly likely will use the opportunity to go back to subic bay).
Vietnam and India is different, China could manage the escalation through land. India has a lot of soft spots China can push. Vietnamese people are very brave and a better strategy is to hit its valuable targets.
Actually I heard your thought a lot, some in CCP think Vietnam is a brother, China shouldn’t fight with it.
John Chan
Actually is VN is good spot to test whether PLA’s missiles alone are good enough to cripple VN’s air force and navy. After the test PLA would have a working plan to cripple Taiwan air force and navy with missiles too, and Taiwan would know PLA has something really work. By then Taiwan most likely would sit down and negotiate for peaceful unification.
Cam
@yang zi – this means the end of China rise.
yang tsup
vietnam and philippine are not afraid of war against china.. U.S will surely help both countries, this is the reason for their joint exercises they have been preparing for this war.. china cant intimidate any of its neighbor by its military, in fact. Its china itself should fear any broke up of war in this region.
yang tsup
no countries in the region fears china, its foolish to think that you can just scare any country by military force..
a_canadian_observer
@yangtsup: I disagree. All countries in the region fear china, due to its mass. However, those countries will defend themselves to their best should china attact them. I know for certain, VN will.
Huang
@yang tsup,
Now, let me come back to your perceived mis-understandings about China. As far as fears and other un-productive sentiments some elements from some countries have on China’s recent stages(have been progressing at an impressive pace) on economic and military are concerned, the LAST thing China need is fears or mis-interpretations from any of China good neighbors and friends. What China hope to see is better understandings and mutual respects from all Asian friends since that is the only natural and practical attitude to advance the shared desire of every nation in Asia in realizing the better,stable,peaceful,and properous Asia.
P.S. Fears are the product of poor understandings. Fears can also lead to mis-judgements. Fears can easily develop into hates. Hates degerate and result in poor decisions that only lead to un-productive ends for all involved.
Viet
@Huang – I must disagree with you. “As far as fears and other un-productive sentiments some elements from some countries have on China’s recent stages(have been progressing at an impressive pace) on economic and military are concernedAs far as fears and other un-productive sentiments some elements from some countries have on China’s recent stages(have been progressing at an impressive pace) on economic and military are concerned”
I must disagree with you on the above assessment. People are not jealous of what China has achieved economically and militarily. It is good for China and its people. They fear China because of its muscle flexing actions recently in ECS and SCS, particularly to the much weaker nations so no matter of what the CCP repeating about its “peaceful rise”, people are still prepared for the worse. Don’t you see the comments from Chinese bloggers like frank, yang I and john chan drumming up about war? They scare the hell out of me.
Huang
@Viet,
If a few comments made by a couple of people could change the nature of what is really going on or evolving at this moment, then we should expect to see wars between China and every countries that have any kind of dis-agrrements with China.
Therefore, sentiments from both sides are equally productive or just passing winds.
China and other Asia friends and neighbors will sail pass this brief mis-understandings by next year at the lastest. Why ? It would be too un-realistics to assume or hope that the Asians are heading toward their own foolish demise just because of one “bow of hot and sour soup”.
P.S. China and other Asian countries will emerge from this lesson more wise and more coherent in the future.
yang zi
Viet, I am just taking a page from Leonard R, using the same kind of thinking and language.
Viet
@Huang – Thank you for trying to be a peace maker but we always hit back when we are attacked, insulted and Chinese bloggers should know this.
John Chan
@Viet,
Only bellicose Vietnamese bloggers have been barking war chant non-stop, and making up history on the go. Chinese bloggers are here only to exposed lies told about China, clear smear painted on China, and correct distorted facts regarding China.
Without China, VN would still be under the thumb of French backed by the American. Yes, Vietnamese always hit back, I just wonder why didn’t Vietnamese hit back USA with Agent Orange too, instead they are jumping and yapping around the Uncle Sam for attention.
yang zi
I am curious to hear Vietnamese’s version of 1988 SCS conflict. I read some story about how the Chinese commander acted against wishes of higher ups and opened fire. not only this, he sank Vietnamese Navy’s supply ship when explicitly ordered not to. this commander never got the promotion.
China didn’t plan to start a navy fight, but circumstances caused it. I am also curious to know how Russia was reacting, it had warships in the nearby Vietnamese port.
China did not have air projecting ability then, Vietnam can use its jet to attack, why didn’t it?
My conclusion is, the 1988 incident was not expected by either side, it was an accident neither side want to make it a routine.
Also, it seems the talk about an India navy base is very close to block 127/128, are they related to each other?
mig 21
india,s.korea,US,japan,vientnaam,afgaanistan,bangladesh,nepal,bhutan and mangolia all these countries united and make a force likes nato.i think good for these countris.china never mess with them.
John Chan
@mig 21,
You can think of such idea, don’t you agree all those nations should know it too? But why hasn’t such idea ever put into place? Have you ever thought of it or ever asked yourself? If you do not have the capacity to figure it out, let me give a hint, NATO is a leach for the lap dogs. Do you want to be a lap dog on a leach?
yang tsup
Again.. No countries in the region fears china’s military power, china assertive act in the region will only result with hate and dislike among its neighbors..
strange that someone says that china hope for mutual respect with its asian friends, but its policy are unrespectful.
It fears U.S intervention and for their regime’s security,
yang tsup
Read John chan comments, first he bragged about china.. Insulted and belittle nations and races, afterwards he complain of others belittling and insult to china or chinese,
hypocrisy at its finest.
John Chan
_SingTao Daily reported that Philippines made strong protest against the deal inked between Vietnam and China. Philippines said the issues in South China Sea could not be determined by Vietnam and China alone. Benigno Aquino was reportedly said he would raise the protest to VN president when he visits VN.
It is puzzling why is Philippines dead against peaceful solution of disputes in SCS? Is it the new warships it got from USA and SKorea allows it to decide to settle the disputes with force?
Observer
Here is link about the history of Vietnam = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam
Observer
Look like the editor removed parts of my post so let me ask this. Why you let chinese posters said aggressive comments about attacking smaller neighbors/wars against sovereign nations and not let us response in kind?
All I can say is china tried and tried for several thousands years to swallow little Vietnam as part of its vast empire and fail and fail. And that is “historic evidences”. Look up on my wiki link with other supporting links to see for yourself.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” George Santayana, philosopher.
John Chan
@Observer,
The editor removes contents he disapproves, usually the editor removes contents that belittle and derogate individual, nation, or race. It is common practice that anti-China clique would resort to underhand racist troll to attack pro-China bloggers when they are losing a debate.
Observer, your logic is totally distorted. Once upon a time Vietnam was a part of China. VN is no different from the Confederacy if it won the war. The information you got from wikipedia about VN was put up by someone using creative revisionist writing. At the same time you are not entitle to say anything whatever Chinese view regarding VN, because your nation is most likely behave even worse, that’s why you never dare to reveal your nation for scrutiny.
“Not letting you response in kind.” Well Oberver, when are you going to let other bloggers respond to your vicious attack on China in kind?
John Chan
That history of Vietnam on the wikipedia was written by westerners to glorify westerner’s conquest. Qing general 馮子才 defeated French invasion force and caused the collapse of French government led by Jules François-Camille Ferry. Due to the incompetence of Qing court, Qing ceded the control of Vietnam to French in the treaty of Sino-Franch New Treaty on 1885-06-09 despite victories on the battlefields.
In the battles from 1885-03-25 to 1885-04-02 馮子才 chased the whole French expedition force all the way to Hanoi, and put the French expedition force under the siege in Hanoi. Qing court called off the attack of Hanoi, and signed the treaty and handed over the control of VN to French, because French lied to the Qing court in Beijing that Qing force in VN was defeated, if Qing court did not stop resistance and signed treaty, the consequence was immeasurable.
The history written by the westerners either skip their disgrace or water down their disgrace, it makes people wonder how real is the history written by westerners.
Observer
@ john chan – before I reply to your posts, can you show us the source(s) of you statement that US’s F22s were made with spare parts from china? I asked that question in another article.
Viet of Sydney
@ Yang Zi: “Frank, a short navy conflict with Philippine is fine, but China cannot manage escalation well if US fleet is involved (even though I doubt it will directly, it mostly likely will use the opportunity to go back to subic bay).Vietnam and India is different, China could manage the escalation through land. India has a lot of soft spots China can push. Vietnamese people are very brave and a better strategy is to hit its valuable targets.”
@John Chan: “Actually is VN is good spot to test whether PLA’s missiles alone are good enough to cripple VN’s air force and navy. After the test PLA would have a working plan to cripple Taiwan air force and navy with missiles too, and Taiwan would know PLA has something really work. By then Taiwan most likely would sit down and negotiate for peaceful unification.”
Both Yang Zi’s & John Chan’s assessments of Vietnam, Philippines, India, Taiwan, the US as well as other nations in Asia-Pacific region are very simplistic and naive.
Please do not forget that P.R. China also has many weaknesses & fears:
- does China wants to jeopardise their recent gains & rise as superpower in any war with any nation?
- China’s three gorges dam and many other hydro-electric dams are left alone in any war? If China can hit other countries’ “soft spots” so can they.
- China’s economic achievements depend on other nations therefore any aggressiveness will be met with counter moves/attack, eg China stopped exporting rare earth to Japan, China’s expansion of its influence in Indian Ocean, China wants to control the Malacca Straits, …
- China’s navy invasion of Spratley and Paracel Islands of Republic of Vietnam in 1974 , and again in 1988 against the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, China ordered their navy to attack, kill, and/or arrest of many Vietnamese fishermen in exchange for ransom in the Eastern Sea of Vietnam is not regarded as peaceful co-existence with her neighbour Vietnam, and certainly is not regarded as befitting behaviour of a world superpower.
- China’s aggressive build-up of naval forces in the Eastern Sea of Vietnam is a REAL threat to international trade routes in the region affecting all nations in the Asia-Pacific region including ASEAN, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, US.
- China can continue to talk, to boast about her peaceful rise but China’s actions speak louder than words.
-China does not want to discuss and negotiate with ASEAN nations as a group of nations regarding the issues of South China Sea, or Vietnam Eastern Sea, or Philippines Western Sea, but China wants to discuss and negotiate with each nation of ASEAN because to break each chop stick is much easier than to break a bundle of chop sticks
All nations in the Asia-Pacific region are afraid of war including China, Vietnam, India, Philippines and other ASEAN nations but every nation must prepare to protect their people, their territorial waters, their E.E.Zone, their islands,…
In any wars only the people suffers NOT their leaders.
nanman
Lets us remind the chinese that we can counter-attack them in 4 directions, and we could leverage on land and water.