Southeast Asian nations are like ‘mosquitoes’ that need to be taught a lesson, according to the Global Times, which is published by the official Chinese Communist Party’s People’s Daily.
‘The Philippines, pretending to be weak and innocent, declared that mosquitoes are not wary of the power of the Chinese elephant,’ a writer using the pseudonym Long Tao (meaning ‘way of the dragon’) says. ‘The elephant should stay restrained if mosquitoes behave themselves well. But it seems like we have a completely different story now given the mosquitoes even invited an eagle (the United States) to come to their ambitious party. I believe the constant military drill and infringement provide no better excuse for China to strike back.’
The warning comes as tensions have increased over the disputed waters of the South China Sea, which China, the Philippines, Vietnam and others claim parts of. This summer, Vietnam and the Philippines both called for outside assistance in the face of what they argued was increasing Chinese aggression, including harassment of its fishing vessels and the alleged deliberate cutting of cables in the waters that belong to PetroVietnam.
‘It’s very amusing to see some of the countries vow to threaten or even confront China with force just because the US announced that it has “returned to Asia,”’ Long wrote. ‘The tension of war is escalating second by second but the initiative is not in our hand. China should take part in the exploitation of oil and gas in South China Sea…For those who infringe upon our sovereignty to steal the oil, we need to warn them politely, and then take action if they don’t respond.’
The last statement could also be taken to mean India. New Delhi isn’t a claimanent of territory in the South China Sea, but has announced it intends to jointly develop oil and gas in the resource rich region with Vietnam.
According to June Teufel Dreyer, a professor at the University of Miami and a China specialist, the article is significant not just because of what it says about China’s intentions in the South China Sea, but also the indications over top-level politics in China.
‘The author’s pseudonym comes from the Six Secret Military Teachings,’ she says. ‘I’ve been told that one of them is that he who wishes to establish military predominance must kill top-level dissenters.
‘I’m assuming Long Tao’s message is metaphorical: dump the people who insist on the “peaceful” part of “peaceful rise.” That he feels that the time has come for China to stop hiding its assets, as Deng Xiaoping advised, and to assert itself internationally. This would seem to have direct relevance to the leadership succession question now playing itself out in Beijing.’
‘The sentence about “the right time for us to…strike first before things gradually get out of hand” reminded me eerily of Mao’s “east wind prevailing over the west wind” with the message that if we don’t seize the moment, the winds may change against us,’ she adds.
Asked what will likely happen next, Dreyer says she expects the next few days will see an official-level effort to soothe the situation, such as a placatory statement from the Foreign Affairs Ministry to the effect that China has always and continues to wish to settle disputes peacefully, although there may also be a show of force in the form of patrol vessels in the area.
‘I doubt that the Vietnamese will take any action, and I’m positive that the only thing Manila will do is complain to the US,’ she says.
But could China be shooting itself in the foot with such talk?
‘The risk for China in continued strident pronouncements – and as you know, many others have been from high-ranking people including PLA flag officers – is that several members of ASEAN may seek closer defense ties with India and Japan. The Vietnamese and Indonesian militaries are large and quite well-equipped. As is the Indian military, which is very worried about China.’








Frank
Chinese people want peaceful development. However, even if the tree wants to be still, the wind will not stop.
There should be a limit.
Cam
Lets go, teach a bully China a real lesson to make them learn a hard way.
Thomas
You’ve mistaken China for the US! Just imagine what the Americans would do if China sought to create instability in the Western hemisphere. Now you have a better understanding of the situation. The West is just using its Asian slave vassals to stir up controversy so as to justify their continued military occupation of Asia.
a_canadian_observer
@Thomas: I’m really sorry for you, that the CCP propaganda has infected you.
Cam
Land grapping by force becomes things in the past. This is 21st century and China is too late for that game. Look at China today – just a little richer, trying to follow colonial path. Worse, she just can bully the weak. China, shame on you!
John Chan
Rogue states Vietnam and Philippines encroaching China’s islands in SCS must be taught that land grapping by force is a bad behaviour of barbaric European colonialism, they should not copy those barbaric behaviour to become squatters and trespassers, they will be sent to jail if they get caught. Squatters and trespassers can either leave peacefully or to be evicted by sheriff.
Cyrus
Laugable to think that China is telling the Philippines of taking over its land. Was it yours to begin with? It is Sovereign Philippine territory and not Chinese.
ozivan
@Cam. How and by what means you’re going to teach China the lesson, the hard way ?
Perhaps, you can reveal which country you are from, so that we can share how best to achieve your wish.
smith
China are always stealing resources of its neighboring country. And they want war to scare Philippines.
Duke Chan
The wind will be stopped when no more 9 dotted line existed, very simple.
John Chan
Endorse the nine-dotted line and observe it as it should be will stop the wind too.
duke chan
stop your daydream, my little brother. China is on its way to drop its claim about the 9 dotted line under international pressure. read my lips. it shot its self big time in the foot. China is learning how to become a responsible country in the world now.
Frank
If we give up 9 dotted lines, the wind will be stronger. There will be more demands. If you read the postings below, you will notice that half of the reasons is that China is not strong enough to defend the 9 dotted line.
All the people here want American’s blood over South China Sea.
We will see if American boys want to shed blood here or not.
a_canadian_observer
Here are some examples of china’s peacefull development…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/28/china-demands-war/
http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/retired-chinese-general-warns-china-is-planning-a-suprise-missile-attack-on-u-s/
Frank
Indians fired the shot first.
Min Goo Lee
Because obviously hubris has always paid off throughout history.
nirvana
(Facts and Fallacy)
The title of The Diplomat post should be “Time for China to strike FIRST”.
It is interesting to note that the Global Times presents the anonymous author as a strategic analyst of China Energy Fund Committee. So here is a specialist in Energy writing an article filled with military strategies (“think ahead and strike first”, “good preparations for a small-scale battle”, arms race, US plagued by war in the Middle-East would not intervene, ect…). Concerning the subject of Energy, his article is full of skilful fallacies, such as stating that out of the 1000 oil rigs in the SCS, none of them is BUILT by China. Who cares who built the rig? There are about 100 oil rigs exploited by China in the SCS. Vietnam and Philippines combined have less than 50. The rest belong to Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei. But, let’s punish Vietnam and Philippines first!
Here are some additional facts and fallacies:
FALLACY: SCS is “2nd Persian Gulf” in terms of Oil & Gas reserve (Chinese source)
FACTS:
-SCS has approximately 2% of proven World reserve (2008).
-current oil production: World total 85 Mbbl/day, SCS total about 2.4 Mbbl/day, combined Vietnam’s and Philippines’ production is 0.310 Mbbl/day. For another perspective, China consumption is 9 Mbbl/day.
-Sea lane importance: 1/3 World trade and 1/2 World oil & gas tonnage pass through it. 90% of Japan’s supply goes through it.
-Local population of 300 Millions depends on Fish and marine products from it.
In addition the SCS will likely be the sea with highest concentrations of submarines, the majority of them from Sania base.
Oil and Gas as the smokescreen reason for preemptive war sounds very much like the “self-defence” pretext for the Sino-Vietnamese border war in 1979. So yes, the Global Times title (“Time to teach those countries around the SCS a lesson”) did not hide the author’s identity: Deng Xiaoping reincarnated as a military strategist.
Leonard R.
That was good analysis Nirvana.
This is not about oil. It is about conquest.
And since China does not have a navy capable of conquering the area,
it is also about CCP paranoia and sheer stupidity.
yang zi
I too like nirvana’s analysis. I also saw it on global times site.
to Leonard R, I don’t see how you reach the conclusion that it is about conquest. China just want to defend the explicit claims that existed for 80 years. There is no intention to occupy Philippine, that would be really foolish.
China has to draw a line, otherwise it will be a slippery slope in SCS. a short navy skirmish might do the trick. US can use this to gain some geopolitical advantage, that’s about it.
nirvana
@Yang zi,
Thank you Yang zi for your sincerity by saying that you agree more or less with me. Even if it is partial, it is a big step.
I would like to pick up a point that you expressed a little bit further down here. You said “China desperately needs a viable strategic deterrence”. Do I understand correctly that, without the “9-dotted line”, China nuclear dissuasion force would not be viable?
Because, Yang zi, I truly believe that this could be the crux of the problem. And if China could explain this, frankly, unambiguously, to its neighbours, especially those that are sharing with China this precious piece of the sea, then a solution could well be found quickly, a solution without using force that will be acceptable to all parties. On the other hand, if China “turns around the pot”, or tries to stir up divisions within ASEAN, blowing hot and cold or using other subterfuges, then the only results is increasing mistrusts and therefore more insecurity to China. And a China that feels insecure is a whole Asia that lives in fear of war. Because, yes we are very afraid of wars, not only Vietnamese and Filipinos, all of us. And I think truly patriotic Chinese have the same feeling as us.
yang zi
@nirvana, I must say I am moved by your sincerity.
Of course I share the same feelings and I just don’t see the point of any war. but reality sometimes forces things. Pride,ego and vanity is every country’s Achilles hill.
The reality is, most Chinese believe strongly about 9 dotted line, and may be most Philippines feel strong about the opposite, someone has to face the reality despite right or wrong. This is an unfortunate collision that is intrinsic. To expect either side to retreat is unrealistic. So leaders much find a solution, Aquino is not, he is trying to escape the reality.
A Philippine move to delay the survey in reed bank is the first step. You don’t have to concede the reed bank, just delay the survey. Vietnam should do the same in 9 dotted line.
China is the best thing occurred to Philippine in 100 years. Spanish conquered, US killed millions (someone said, I have no proof), Japanese killed scores, China did nothing of sort. US and Japan has not been active in supporting Philippine’s economy and never will. China offered big concessions to have a free trade zone with ASEAN. I just don’t understand the recklessness of Philippine.
On the strategic deterrence, I don’t represent anyone in the Chinese government, I don’t know any people with connection. I am just saying China need it to calm US hawks down. SCS is important to this goal, but there is no evidence Chinese government is investing properly in this area. I would say it is neglecting it. the 2nd artillery is not getting enough funding. the strategic sub development is in a snails pace and with low quality. I don’t know what those fools in the government are doing!
Anyway, it is not the reason to be hard on reed bank. Chinese subs doesn’t need reed bank. to understand the Chinese hardline, you have to know the 9 dotted line has been ingrained in Chinese mind since 1940s. we grow up learning that and inspired by it. A communist government boasting its legitimacy to rule China, can never give up an inch of the claim, otherwise it will face the rage of Chinese citizens. The call to war is from ordinary people, not CCP leadership, but the leadership may have to act to calm the population.
This is the reality. you may woke up in 1970/90s and thinking reed bank is yours, but Chinese explicit claim has been there for 50 years. blaming 50cents and CCP is detrimental to the sound judgement. it is getting increasingly difficult for CCP to soothe the population on SCS. the best CCP can offer is the joint development, Philippians should take up on that. it can explicitly say the joint development doesn’t void the claims from either side.
the energy reserve numbers are giving the urgency to SCS problem, but you have understand Chinese mindset. any retreat from SCS will void the China’s progress of last 30 years.
Cyrus
Reed bank has been Philippine territory even before Spain came to the Philippines to think that it is your territory constitutes a threat and an insult to Philippine Sovereignty.
The statement saying the US and Japan has not helped the Philippine Economy is a fallacy. The US and Japan is our largest trading partner so both in Economics and Military you would understand Filipino mindset that we are supportive of the United States.
Logically speaking we cannot side with China doing so would constitute our surrendering of our Sovereignty in the Spratly and Reed bank, logically if we don’t have help from Japan and the United States Militarily and Diplomatically we have really have any leverage against China in any sense.
Thus our the GRP is trying its best with what it has to retain our Sovereignty on Reed bank being an undisputed Philippine Sovereign Territory and negotiating how parties should act in Spratly Islands being an area of Contention.
If China shall and will insist on the Reed Bank then I don’t see any amicable settlement. No self Respecting Philippine President would give up Sovereignty at any Price. It would create a Political backlash as well as public outcry as the biggest traitorous act anyone could have ever done.
The Philippines will and shall stand with the fact that Reed Bank is undisputed Philippine Territory and will also stand that Spratly is in Contention and that it is a disputed territory.
If there be war so be it as we have already sacrificed so much blood for our Independence and we will not back down to any Country wanting to take over any part of our Sovereign Philippine Territory.
nirvana
@Yang zi,
From 2005-2008 China had pursued the policy “what is mine is mine, what is yours we jointly explore” in the China-PH-VN joint development of SCS. Joint development will never work, or it will work only if there is nothing to be found on the sea bed. China only plays according to China’s rules when there is something to share.
I can believe that ordinary Chinese have the “9-dotted line ingrained in their minds”. But this means that your government has been irresponsible. Your government knows that, legally it can assert only a dotted line. Indeed, officially, it hasn’t asserted anything else still.
You have created your own Gordian knot, and you wish China’s neighbours to be patient. But the official Chinese media has been broadcasting in the opposite intention. With such explicit language as that of the Global Times, the ultimatum that was sent to the Vietnamese and Philippines governments is in fact: unless you want to commit political suicide, don’t stop what you are doing.
Is this how your renowned state propaganda is trying to “harmonize” Vietnamese and Filipinos public opinions?
Cyrus
That has been addressed by both the Filipino’s and Americans.
Cyrus
The United States did not kill Millions tens of thousands and hundred thousands at best.
Frank
It is OK for Americans to kill Vietnamese and Filipinos.
Right?
fhjsd
The greatest danger to China is its own undemocratic and unelected communist party which is accountable to no laws whatsoever. They could send young Chinese to their deaths under all sort of imaginary banners.
harry
sounds like the democratic elected government of USA is doing a great job at sending young americans under all sort of imaginary banners. and that also include all the lap dog of USA in the nato. its so funny how most China basher can be so ironic.
Long
The article by Long Tao shows the real China: it is not going to rise peacefully as it always advertises. China will be the source of another War.
Andrew
What’s the matter with China? They seem desperate to “teach others lessons.” Desperate to make the international water (South China Sea) their own pond. Poor clown!
John Chan
@Andrew:
China wants to rise peacefully, but Filipino and Vietnamese are taking advantages on China’s conciliated approach as weakness. USA wants to make Asia a pigs breakfast in order to drag everybody down with it while it is sinking and failing under the mounting financial and economic malaises.
SCS is international water; China is doing its best to keep the seaway passages in SCS free and safe. But the islands inside the nine-dotted line are China’s lands; China just wants to maintain sovereignty over those China’s land in SCS. So please do not troll something that is not true and totally rubbish.
Trung
@ John Chan
paracel islands and spratly islands belong to those country who send people to settle down there. Chinese visited these Islands two thousand year ago cannot claims they belong to Chinese, with your Chinese reason, may be US could claim the moon belong to them, by the way china not only want to occupy these islands but also want to have the whole SCS, nine dotted line is the evidence, Chine ships were threatening and cutting Vietnamese vessel’s cable even though they were operating inside exclusive economic zone 200 mile from the mainland. Andrew was not wrong but you.
a_canadian_observer
@Trung: I need to correct you re. the chinese visit to the Paracel islands 2000 years ago. This is just a baseless claim/propaganda made by china, there is no fact to prove it.
Peter
Ah no, even in the 1920’s, French map from occupied Vietnam showed those islands were Chinese before they started to occupy them. This was the “historic” claim that Vietnamese is claiming. The fact is that China had continued to claim these islands for hundreds, even thousand of years and as you know, China has a continous history and culture, unlike the broken Vietnamese.
Sinodefender
Prove that Wujing Zongyao,Yuan shi and Ming and Qing dynasty maps are fake…
minae
Complete nonsense and too mad for words.
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan:
Here are some examples of china’s peacefull development…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/28/china-demands-war/
http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/retired-chinese-general-warns-china-is-planning-a-suprise-missile-attack-on-u-s/
John Chan
@a_Canadian_observer:
Fabricating evidence is perjury and is a convictable crime in court. Washingtontimes, NYT, WSJ are official mouthpieces of US black information network to create instability around the world. It is shame on you to cite those sites as supporting materials to back up your specious argument.
China is the only country in the human history who declares it wants to rise peacefully, all Westpac nations were plundering and murdering around the world to feed their rises.
John
“Wujing Zongyao,Yuan shi and Ming and Qing dynasty maps”
Sinodefender.
Which of these Governments control the land mass that is currently called China?
Any of these? Or is it called a CCP Government?
Or do you mean a historical time? I have Vietnamese friends with historical claims to what is now currently Southern China, can they make a claim?
What about Tibetans In India? Can they make a claim?
What about Japanese control of Manchuria? Can they now reclaim it?
Is it a specific historical claim or is it what ever the current Chinese claim it to be?
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan:
Fabricating evidence is perjury and is a convictable crime in court. Xinhua is an official mouthpiece of china black information network to create instability around the world. It is shame on you to cite those sites as supporting materials to back up your specious argument.
China is the only country in the human history who lies that it wants to rise peacefully, and accuses Westpac nations of “plundering and murdering around the world to feed their rises”, while china has supplied weapons and support to regime such as Red Khmers, Gadaffi, Congo…
David Vu
I wished the Chinese leaders followed the Global times advised and send battle ships attack Vietnam now. Talk is cheap, let’s see who teach who a lesson, remember 1979 ?
Let’s see, who will pay the most heavy price of consequences, in term of economics, political blockage and embargo etc ….
The Vietnamese will kick ass the Chinese same as the Tong, Ming, Yuan, Manchu dynasty from China in the past, as well as the PLA recently in 1979.
Come on, let’s fight, talk is cheap, don’t be chicken eh . Let’s see who teach who a lesson.
China now is paper dragon but its thinks it own the world. Again, talk is cheap, don’t be a chicken. Let’s send battle ships and fight. If chicken out then shut off the big mouth. If talking fight but chicken out, people called it big mouth with out a gut.
John Chan
@David Vu:
The Vietnam central government had to evacuate from its capital Hanoi in the advent of PLA bombardment, that’s what had happened in 1979. Vietnamese POWs had to be persuaded to go home, that’s what had happened in 1979.
minae
The Vietnamese Government never evacuated from Hanoi in 1979. And what is ‘Vietnamese POW’ ? Before you go on with your spiritual autoeroticism (to borrow Pope Benedict XVI’s words), just get the facts right. Or all your arguments will founder accordingly.
Don’t quote from your Party’s history textbooks. Pathetic.
ozivan
@minae. Please read wikipedia on Sino-Vietnamese war 1979. When China attacked, Vietnam made extensive preparations to move most of her Government to Hue.
minae
Someone from Japan told me not long ago that China is now a big adolescent boy growing up with a lot of muscle and not much brains. It assumes it can do whatever it wants. Sooner it will crash to the ground when faced with reality. Japan had been through all that before so they know.
I just don’t grasp how a country with GDP one-thirds the size of the US can lay claim to No 1 position that soon. And remember it is slowing down with a hell lot of problems.
ozivan
@minae. China had not claimed to be No. 1 in the world. It’s the Western media who hyped up China’s rise, as against US decline.
Western media have been having an exciting time talking about China replacing the US in the last 2 years. The Chinese know it’s not going to happen, and they have not been having sleepless night.
Although China is proud that she has gained many achievements, the Chinese leadership have all the time been very careful and prudent not to gloat over her achievements.
So, minae, you needn’t try to understand or grasp the problem within your hands. Just relax.
Tom Tran
Chan, how old are you?
John Chan
@minae, Tom Tran:
Instead of discussing the article, David Vu was blowing fabricated stories and posting provocative comment against China for no reasons. His comment has nothing to do with the article. I merely told what actually had happened in 1979, why are you guys becoming hysteria?
Is it only Vietnamese allowed to tell their version of 1979 event, and nobody else is allowed to tell their version of the event? If so, it is a dictatorial practise from VN, not a freedom of speech on the free world. Are you guys from VN?
It seems VN never listen to reasoning. Long Tao has a point, he suggested a way to make VN listen.
Jason.k
@John Chan, I would recommend you to visit the cemeteries of the dead Chinese soldiers during 1979, Sino-Vietnam border war. Please send my tributes to those young soldiers had to die for CCP’s carelessness. By the way, don’t forget to bring a calculator to count how many got slaughter. Make note and learn, my son.
Tom Tran
Well put. Talk is cheap, we want real actions. Big and lousy mouth doesn’t do anything, just a waste of time.
John Chan
@Tom Tran:
This is an internet discussion forum; we debate with reasons and logic. The brutal actions will happen in the South China Sea. And you will know it after the fact, so you do not need to get all fan up here.
Chinese bloggers are trying to expose the hysteria stirred up by the anti-China clique to harm the peace and prosperity of SE Asia.
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan:
This is an internet discussion forum; we debate with reasons and logic. The brutal actions will happen in the South China Sea. And you will know it after the fact, so you do not need to get all fan up here.
Non-chinese bloggers are trying to expose the hysteria stirred up by the China clique to harm the peace and prosperity of SE Asia.
ozivan
@David Vu. You are in the internet age and world, which gives the individual extremely cheap and good access to interact with people from other countries.
Bloggers here are using the Diplomat to defend their country’s positions, actions or policies, just as you have done for Vietnam. Unless, you are writing in as the President of Vietnam or as the Minister for Defence, all that you have commented are also cheap talk. So are the Chinese bloggers who would only be able to express their personal opinion, but will not be able to decide for the Chinese leadership to go to war.
BTW, the Chinese have cut the survey cables of Vietnamese vessels, and will probably do so again, if Vietnam makes another attempt. This time for sure, the Chinese patrol vessels might give a longer time for Vietnam to respond, after the warning to stop.
Better still, you should wish that Vietnam quickly sink a Chinese patrol vessel in the next encounter, to show the world Vietnam mean business. Then Vietnam will have a perfect opportunity to prove which country is stronger.
What say you ? Are you in a position to tell Vietnam’s leadership to do as you beckon ?
nirvana
@Ozivan,
The fact is that your government does not and will not warn that it would do as you said. In the second cable-cutting incident (Viking 2 incident), the Chinese patroller was just shadowing the Chinese fisherman trawler.
You do not have a legal base with the “9-dotted line”. In fact, “within 9-dotted line” is a legally flawed term because a *dotted* line does not have a “within” and a “beyond”. It is only in Chinese imagination that the dotted line is a continuous line. And legally it is an undefined because there are no coordinates published of the dots. You can not unforce an undefined law. This is the imbroglio you are in!
I can predict that the next Chinese sabotage in the SCS will be titled “The Elephant that unsuccessfully provoked the Mosquito to bite”.
Frank
I wish the same as you do.
I agree with you that “Talk is cheap”. It is time for action.
I also hope that Chinese leaders remember the lessons in 1979. This time, do not return any captured land back to Vietnam.
Cyrus
China would strike first. There is just one caveat in regards with the Philippines: The Mutual Defense Treaty of 1951.
If they think they can freely attack the Philippines without any repercussions then they are dead wrong. It was a good decision after all by President Aquino to talk with Prime Minister Noda in regards to the West Philippine Sea. I do hope the Philippines would continue building strategic alliances to combat the aggressiveness of China.
Cyrus
It is in the Philippines Raison d’etat to build up its strategic alliance and to strengthen its humble defenses. Sovereignty must never be given up on Lawful Philippine Territory.
China’s aggressiveness woudl serve as Raison d’etre of a return of American Bases in the Philippines.
John Chan
@Cyrus:
You have mentioned many times about The Mutual Defense Treaty of 1951. I believe China is fully aware of such treaty and its implication.
Philippines should ask USA to show action to back up the promise they made in 1951 not just lip service. Philippines should ask USA which DEFCON USA would raise to if China is in the process of wiping out Philippines’ air force and navy, then you would know how sincere USA would honour their 1951 promise. From the DEFCON number Philippines could measure whether USA has enough material to support such DEFCON, so Philippines won’t be fooled by the sleek talk of the snakeoil salesman.
Frank
China should strike Philippines first because of The Mutual Defense Treaty of 1951.
Attack of the disputed islands occupied by Philippines is not exactly falls into the Mutual Defense Treaty of 1951.
This is the best case to see if Americans are willing to shed blood for Filipino’s territorial claims.
Cyrus
Spratly US wont help Reed Bank then the US is treaty bound.
Grant
Well, if they are foolish enough to follow through they’ll manage to hand the U.S all the allies it could want. China’s hope is to constantly reassure its neighbors that a powerful China won’t press its advantage. Honestly, have they ever bothered to study American history? Have they ever stopped to wonder why the U.S.A has such a hard time reassuring South/Central American states?
Cyrus
The Chinese might have also forgotten about Guam and how any attack on ASEAN is in the range of the American Bombers.
I think that the Chinese have not thought of this caveat and also the Defense Treaty with Philippines.
Peter
Chinese has anti-stealth radars now
Cyrus
They will bring it to the Philippines when attacking? I do not think so.
That is a caveat you must think long and hard before attacking The Philippines.
John Chan
All F-22s have been grounded more than half a year now due to lack of spare parts from China, if USA continues to be unfriendly with China, perhaps B-2s need to be grounded due to short of spare parts from China too.
Leonard R.
The mosquito metaphor is very strange.
How does one teach a mosquito a lesson? Are mosquitoes in East Asia more teachable than they are elsewhere? And what should an elephant do if mosquitoes do not behave? Does it go on a rampage? How does that stop the tiny mosquitoes from biting?
Long Tao uses some very stupid analogies here. But maybe he is right.
Now that the Filipino mosquito has invited the American eagle to feast on China, maybe it is time for China to attack the United States.
The hawks of America love writers like Long Tao. His writings may soon be in demand at anti-China think tanks.
John Chan
@Leonard R:
There is culture difference between East and West, Chinese bloggers are trying their best to bridge the gap so that the East and West could understand each other and avoid mishaps due to culture differences. Chinese bloggers are doing their best to make East and West coexist peacefully and prosperously.
But stubborn and bigotry anti-China people like you refuse to listen to the Chinese bloggers, anti-China people have covered their eyes, and closed their ears, but open their big bad mouths yelling anti-China rhetoric non-stop.
Leonard R, the mosquito metaphor is not strange only if you could take your hands off you ears and eyes, you would know the world is bright and peaceful.
John
John Chan wrote:
“Long Tao had his point, China better makes up its mind, earlier the better, finish off Philippines and Vietnam’s air force and navy in 48 hours is the best way to go. Short pain is better than long pain. As long as USA is around, China to lure those mosquitoes is wasting time.”
You wrote earlier that you are here to give the other point to those who have conceerns about Chinese goals.
If so, then maybe you are not the best person for the job. I am not 100% happy with CCP and thier future aims, but I in no way want to attack them. So how are you convincing me that China has peaceful aims?
Reading Chinese comments, leads me to believe that I will see WW3 in my lifetime, they seem to have no real desire for cooperation with the rest of the world but seem to be trying to relive a 19th century agenda.
John Chan
@John:
Why do you twist China’s desire to protect its sovereignty as a source of trouble? Don’t you agree China should have the right to defend itself despite it wants to rise peacefully?
Surrounding China with fully loaded armed bases, conducting threatening military manoeuvres along China’s coasts, escalating arm race, inciting all Asian neighbours to be hostile towards China, mobilizing full scale cold war assaults with black information network, starting all out financial war to crash China, undermining China’s effort to stabilize EU zone, etc., the list of the predatory hostile actions can go on. John, you call it USA and its lackeys have no way want to attack China? Obviously you say what you don’t mean.
Accusing China not cooperating baselessly definitely is not the right way to show USA has real desire to maintain world peace and prosperity cooperatively, but a prove to repeat a 19th century imperialistic agenda to harm China.
nirvana
@Leonard R.
>> “The hawks of America love writers like Long Tao”
By this remark you raised a very interesting question. WHO wanted us to read this bellicose blablabla? Certainly not the PLA, because the military, when they strike, it must be where, how and when you suspect the least.
What if there is indeed a collusion between those Chinese and US thinktanks paid by the special interest groups of the respective Defence industries? Next year is election year almost everywhere…
ozivan
@Leonard R. I have an alternative metaphor. Smaller and less powerful countries often lament that they are like the grasses to the elephants.
When two elephants fight, the grasses get trampled on.
When the two elephant make love, they get trampled too.
Behind the scenes, big nations often make decisions based on their own self-serving interests against the interest of smaller nations, and then find a good rationale to cover their selfish actions.
nirvana
@Ozivan,
That is why small nations will fight because they have one thing that some big nations have lost: dignity. And sometime they fight until victory, not like the army of a big country I know which has not fought any war until victory, except a civil war.
Matthew Hall
Bring it on!
Frank
Somebody needs fire the first shot.
China won’t.
John Chan
Long Tao had his point, China better makes up its mind, earlier the better, finish off Philippines and Vietnam’s air force and navy in 48 hours is the best way to go. Short pain is better than long pain. As long as USA is around, China to lure those mosquitoes is wasting time.
If the current China leadership has the decisive capability of the earlier generation, the current chaotic situation in SCS shouldn’t happen at all. 1962 decision brought 50 years peace; 1979 action brought 30 years peace on land; a decisive action in SCS should bring 50 years peace too.
International politics is same as financial market, ambiguities is the worst enemy for long term planning and development, because nobody know what to plan. China must put the foot down, so everybody can behave and plan in according to known rules and direction. Its way to better for Asians to focus on maintaining economy stability, instead of letting a drowning USA drags everyone down with it.
Tom Tran
Why not 5 minutes or less? China could definitely use the shorter route by nuking all countries around it it ash, then move its overcrowded population south, sound fantastic, right? I just started to wonder why a person so disconnected to reality like you keep posting garbage without absolute no clue about what you are talking about, just like many propagandists (they do have that sort of jobs working for the communist regime) back in Vietnam. They keep saying and repeating things that they were told, without adding values or even trying to verify its face values for a single second.
Aogin
@John Chan “China must put the foot down, so everybody can behave and plan in according to known rules and direction.”…………..You and the Chinese warlords insult the name of my ancestors. The countries surrounding SCS do not want any shooting war with CCP China. CCP should not provoke any shooting war with it’s neighbors. The war addicts in the Central party should be expelled so that they will not jeopardize China’s peaceful rise in the global community. I urge CCP China to talk to other claimant countries and find an amicable solution for the said disputed Islands and territories. If CCP China attacks any of it’s neighbors, they will retaliate. They may loose a shooting war with CCP China but they will gain the sympathy of the world. It will bolster Taiwan’s claim to separate from the mainland. In the end CCP China will loose all it’s investments, manufacturing and international prestige. What made China rise will be it’s downfall (manufacturing and mass production). It’s my simplistic view of what will happen. They do not want any war against CCP China, but they do not want their lands and territories be occupied illegally. CCP China has to choose if it wants war or peace. Then we will see the true mettle of the CCP leaders. What the CCP is doing is emulating what Imperial Japan did in WW2.
Justin
China should be very careful about using such bellicose language. She will only send all the Southeast Asian nations, India, Japan and Australia into a military alliance against with the United States. If China struck first militarily, she would invite terrible retaliation. China’s leaders should learn a lesson from world history – aggressive nations eventually pay a high price for aggression. Just look at what China herself suffered during World War II, but in the end, Japan paid a terrible price for her aggression. Look at Hitler’s aggression against Europe and the former Soviet Union and the end it brought upon him. China would face a similar fate if it should start a war in the Pacific.
ozivan
@Justin. You forgot to add,… Or in more recent military history the US defeat in the Vietnam war, the French defeat in Dien Bin Phoa, the US hollow victory in Iraq which while US succeeded in invading Iraq, she also succeeded in bankrupting her ownself over it, or the Afghanistan adventure that US spent billions and 130,000 boots on the ground just to accomplish the killing of one man and a band of a few thousand stragglers army.
yang zi
If China acts, it will not be military, it will first start in diplomatic and economic. All the oil in reed bank doesn’t pay for the economic benefit Philipine receives from China.
If it happens militarily, it will be a small scale conflict involving sinking a few ships. Philipine should stop the aggressive act on reed bank. Aquino doesn’t have honor but he is doing what expected for a politician. Even though it sounds important, but the so called Japanese involvement is overblown, Japan can’t help much, neither India.
The key is still US, can a desperate US refrain from going to a major war? Some people think war is the answer to recession. But US and China are too dependent on each other. China is actually a net plus for US. Also it is easier to deal with China because there is only one government to deal with for a big economy.
If a war break out between US and China, the little oil in reed bank
Can’t save Philipines from economic ruin. Besides, if China tanks, the drilling of reed bank is not worth the cost. Oil price will be $10
Cyrus
Funny how the Chinese are thinking they own the Reed Bank when that has been undisputable Philippine Territory before Koumintang and Shiang Kai Shek plotted the 9 dotted line.
So stop dreaming that it is yours it has and will always be Philippine Sovereign Territory. Oh and how convenient for Chinese to think it can attack the Philippines in Reed Bank and forget about the caveat of the 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty.
If I am not mistaken Reed Bank is reachable by the Long Range Bombers of the US in Guam. Let’s see how you try to conquer the Philippines and see yourself suffer just as Japan did when it tried to conquer the Philippines.
yang zi
A mutual defense treaty doesn’t mean one country can go about to provoke war, which Philippine is doing.
but I am not familiar with this treaty, can you elaborate on some key points?
a_canadian_observer
@yangzi: Thanks for showing your true color. I thought you could hold it longer, but I was wrong. Anyway, people can fake about honesty and integrity, but not for long.
yang zi
@a_canadian_observer, Canada is a nice place to observe, when global warming gets hot, Canada will not be a frozen tundra anymore, while rest of the world living in debilitation heat.
look, I want peace and I can understand all you guys’ feelings. but territory disputes are zero sum games, you can’t expect me to give in.
Aquino is a fool. Vietnam is playing double games. both are aggressive in drilling inside 9 dotted line. China has to do something.
If Philippine and Vietnam don’t stop, I fully expect a limited war against either one. this could happen after Xi takes the power.
Cyrus
The Parties to this Treaty,
Reaffirming their faith in the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all Governments, and desiring to strengthen the fabric of peace in the Pacific Area,
Recalling with mutual pride the historic relationship which brought their two peoples together in a common bond of sympathy and mutual ideals to fight side-by-side against imperialist aggression during the last war,
Desiring to declare publicly and formally their sense of unity and their common determination to defend themselves against external armed attack, so that no potential aggressor could be under the illusion that either of them stands alone in the Pacific Area,
Desiring further to strengthen their present efforts for collective defense for the preservation of peace and security pending the development of a more comprehensive system of regional security in the Pacific Area,
Agreeing that nothing in this present instrument shall be considered or interpreted as in any way or sense altering or diminishing any existing agreements or understandings between the United States of America and the Republic of the Philippines,
Have agreed as follows:
Peter
Philippine isn’t a country until late 1940’s. Chiang and his KMT was in power in the late 1910’s. What undisputed Phillippine territory?
John Chan
Neither Vietnam nor Malaysia was a country until 1950’s, definitely their territory claims are made thru the thin air.
Cyrus
We declared our Independence in 1898 so that you just know. We were defeated by the Americans and was again colonized we regain our Independence in 1946 July 04.
So yeah we were Independent before Shiang Kai Shek thought of the 9 dotted line.
ozivan
@Cyrus. The US has stated that they do not want to take sides in the territorial disputes over the SCS islands, so long that free and safe passage and navigation are ensured.
If China attacks Philippines in the islands of Spratlys, not against mainland Philippines, would the 1951 MAT covers such incidents ? Bear in mind that the US treats the SCS islands as under disputes. How do you reconcile these different positions ?
Cyrus
Yes the US would not help in Spratly dispute that has been agreed upon. Reed Bank is a different matter it is our Sovereign territory and near our Capital.
An attack in Reed Bank would be a grave threat to our very existence and I think the Americans would be helping by then. Of course it would depend totally on the Raison d’etat of the United States whether it would want to show how dependable it is in a conflict to its allies in the Asia Pacific.
mareo2
A typical ultra-nationalist article from the Global Times, looking down on other countries and thinly veiled calls for war as a mean for solve territorial disputes. People in third world countries hear this tale too many times before, a greedy, strong and rich great power, hungry of natural resources fighting wars for oil. How much the things can change in two years, is in it? From praise the CCP’s “charm offensive” promoting a “peaceful rise” to considerate encircling the PRC for keep peace in the Asia-Pacific region.
a_canadian_observer
@mareo2: Agreed!
yang zi
China desperately needs a viable strategic deterrance. It provides a stablity that allows the peace. US encouragement in ASEAN allows the smaller players to be adventurous and drag US into a war. A strategic deterrence discourages adventurism.
US domestic situation is worsening, China is not much better. It is possible for China and US to reach an understanding, let China strike Philpine, then move to subic bay with an invitation. Both wins. US fleet in subic bay may not as bad as it looks. Chinese navy can learn to play with big leagues. US benefit some but not a whole lot, a big money pit without too much benefit. You build a police station in a neighborhood, but nobody pays you. US should ask Philipine to pay for it
Cyrus
If you think US would act as your dog then you know nothing of Politics. Do you really think United States would work together with China? Just try attacking the Philippines so that you would know how United States keeps their word on the 1951 Mutual Defense Pact they have with us.
Land your Armed Forces in Philippine soil so that you might experience just how well we fight with obsolete weaponry.
yang zi
I am sure Philippines fight well and cannot be subdued. but China is not going land on Philippines soil, it will just destroy Philippines navy and may be kick it out of some sprately islands.
Cyrus
That would be kids play. Our Navy is a joke at the moment. The only arm in the Armed Forces of the Philippines that can put up a decent fight is our Army though not head on with our equipment.
Japan had experienced it in WWII how we fought even without food and lack of supplies.
a_canadian_observer
@yangzi: So, the ultimate goal for china is still war, despite all the talks of “peaceful rise”. Thanks for confirming!
reader
Nothing more precise!Agree!
Ted
It’s time to break up China…It will be a cobra of another world war.
John Chan
@Ted:
If you are a Brit, the whole world’s acrimony was British creation; Brits are most evil people in the world. If British isles is gone, Europe will be united and peaceful forever.
If you are American, Russian said it would be broken into 6 pieces due to its financial meltdown.
If you are Ozzie, Indonesian would like to have a piece of it for the vengeance of East Timor.
So Ted, where do you come from?
reader
He’s from the rest of the world except China, because China’s on the way against the rest of the world.
Tom Tran
Cheap talk, who cares? Talk to the Viet you will know who is worried the most. The Viet has been living for thousands of year next to that unfriendly land grabbing big brother, but they are still very independent, and to some extent, having fun mocking the sort of China illusion in establishing the kind of central kingdom like the past. The only reason why I see China moving against its neighbors is that it is rigged with its own domestic problems, and talking war to a measure to drum up support for that unpopular regime. Tell me how many human beings and money will it be willing to spend on grabbing a few uninhabited islands? It is easy to hide behind a computer screen to write fancy nasty idea which serves no real purpose but day dream.
Cyrus
If China attacks the Philippines then it would put into effect the Mutual Defense Treaty of 1951. If that is the case then ANZU would then help the United States, so does NATO if US ask’s.
I do not think that Chinese are this stupid to begin with, but if by chance they really are this stupid then i could see the Republic of China going back to the Mainland.
yang tsup
if we let ourself taken by anger and hate then we just making a world of destructions, lets us all lived in a civilised manner respect each other and talk on peaceful solutions..
ozivan
@yang tsup. if we let ourself taken by anger and hate then we just making a world of destructions, lets us all lived in a civilised manner respect each other and talk on peaceful solutions.
Is that you yang tsup ? This is the first time I read words of peace, discarding anger and hate, from you.
Welcome to the peacemaker’s club. We need more of your kind, if only you could persist for long. Peaceful intentions and words will somehow prevail.
EAM
The entire GT article is worth reading.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/677717/Time-to-teach-those-around-South-China-Sea-a-lesson.aspx
All the hard work that China has been doing to convince other countries of its good intentions could be undone by this including the huge effort and expense of Confucius Institutes. Pity.
The main points though:
“But out there could just be an ideal place to punish them. Such punishment should be restricted only to the Philippines and Vietnam, who have been acting extremely aggressive these days”.
So these two countries are the direct target. No wonder they are calling in the Americans and the Indians.
“Singapore brings home high-end stealth aircraft while Australia, India and Japan are all stockpiling arms for a possible “world-class” battle. The US, provoking regional conflict itself, did not hesitate to meet the demands of all of the above.”
So are all next? (It is flattering though to be thought of in the same breath as India and Japan even though we are little guys and not in the same league).
We may be all little guys, and China may be a big guy, Gulliver’s Travels might be worth reading for a lesson.
Or as an old Chinese proverb goes “maque sui xiao, gandan ju quan” (Small as it is, the sparrow has all the vital organs).
yang zi
EAM, the article mentioned Australia as part of narrative about arms buildup in the region, doesn’t mean it is hostile to Australia.
China’s strategic interest is its good relationship with US, without it, there are whole host of countries can explore the opportunity to sever their own national interests. from India to Vietnam and Philippine. these countries are actually getting benefits from both sides.
Australia ideologically is more aligned with Europe than US. Europe has a more benign view of China. US has the habit of hitting on number two. US-Japan alliance sounds sweet now, but remember the Japan bashing in early 90s?
EAM
@Yangzi, your comments are reassuring. It is true that Australia is probably one of the countries in the region that is most open to China. However, this kind of rhetoric from Beijing is clearly unhelpful. Going back to the days of the Cold War when Kremlinogists and “China watchers” would dissect in minute detail every utterance from Russia and China, something like that still happens especially in regard to comments from papers like the People’s Daily and GT. I would imagine that this is what is happening in Canberra and other regional capitals as we speak. In fact the Canberra Times has already picked up on the story.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/china-turns-up-heat-in-maritime-heart-of-se-asia/2307917.aspx
And Australia like most other countries are both tightening links with the US
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/11a19e2a-dee6-11e0-9130-00144feabdc0.html
and also upgrading ties with India
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/time-to-forge-a-partnership-for-the-asian-century/story-e6frg6ux-1226140290489
As for Europe, it is really quite distant from our political thinking and international relations. Australians may travel there a lot. However, we are probably closer in our thinking and outlook to the US than to Europe and as societies also closer. The US alliance has wide support in Australia and that it would be unrealistic for China to deal with us on any other basis. We are also probably closer in terms of international politics to countries like Singapore and Japan than to Europe – and to ASEAN in many respects.
There is a lot of goodwill towards China but that can go backwards if China embarks on a path of military confrontation with its neighbours. India also looms larger in our regional relations (see link above to piece by Raja Mohan and Rory Medcalf) with much goodwill towards them, despite the recent problems over attacks on Indian students here (and that, I have to say, is an area in which we failed).
Hopefully, the GT editorial is just shooting from the hip by an undisciplined editor at GT. In the end, there may be only one solution, for the countries in question to go to the International Court of Justice and obtain a ruling on who owns what. No one loses face and there is a solution from an independent third party.
Watcher
Yangzi, have you been to Europe? We generally view China as a nationalistic dictatorial country that is behaving aggresively towards its neighbours. Then ther is actually NATO and article 5 – an attack on one shall be considered an attack on all. China seems to believe they can corner one by one “bilaterally”. History have thought us otherswise. We have seen dictatorial aggressive nationas before. They are not to be confronted one by one.
I have great respect for China’s culture and history and I have met many nice Chinese. I hate to see them act this way. I truly hope they will stick to their “peaceful development”, but I am very sceptic. Good luck and lets try to avoid the sable rattling. If you do please know that things often turn out differently than planned. War is a dirty, bloody and chaotic business and one cannot choose to make it limited (that can just as well be chosen by the adversary).
John Chan
@Watcher:
The world’s acrimonies were the handy work of the Europeans, particular the old fox Brits. So please spare rest of the world your double-talk, and speaking through both sides of the mouth.
I saw a lot of loots from China, middle East, and South America in Europe, Europeans never see war as dirty, bloody and chaotic business; they see it as a path to glory, glamour, opportunities of wealth, rapping, sacking, and plundering when they were at it in the last 170 years.
When NATO chief advocated NATO returning to Asia, so Europeans can repeat their evil deeds in the last 170 years via NATO; I thought he was insane, you comment reflected he was not insane and Europeans have never changed, they are the same as 170 years ago.
Observer
Ahh, more hot air from china and chinese.
Let look at history, shall we?
For the last few thousands years, china tried countless times to annex Vietnam as its own but Vietnamese people fought and fought and defeated big china at Battle of Bach Dang. Emperor Quang Trung defeated over 200000 chinese invaders in 5 days , china tried again in 1979 and suffered another humiliation, again, as usual.
And china had Battle of Nanking vs. Japan, Opium War vs. Britain. We all know the results.
yang zi
your lines are always the same. ok we all know Vietnamese are brave and victories and defeated China for a thousand years.
I am surprised you didn’t mention you will harass Chinese merchant ships and stop the Chinese supply. I am wondering how do you do it with your coast line defense destroyed by China. remember, China will not go to Vietnamese soil, just hit the ships, jets and missile sites.
Of course the brave Vietnamese people will ride on speed boats and board Chinese merchant ships. A good pirate strategy.
a_canadian_observer
@yangzi: Can you provide some real proof of Vietnamese harrashing chinese fishermen?
Do you really think that the Vietnamese and the world will sit idle watching china detroy Vietnam? What reason does china have? china cannot even clarify the 9-dotted line.
harry
by last few thousand years you mean 2000 and for 1000 of them vietnam was dominated by various Chinese dynasties. simply nameing 200 years of a weaker China does not prove your point. your way of think is very typical of a China basher, that is ignore all reason and bash China. :)
nirvana
@harry,
History shows indeed these Chinese and Vietnamese traditions: when China was strong it dominated Vietnam (among others), when China was weak Vietnam enjoyed good neighbourhood with China.
harry
Philipines is the most vocal in the dispute in SCS, but it’s the weakest. China does not need to teach a lesson to all the scs countries, China only need to pick a diplomatically isolated county as a target, and as an old Chinese saying go “kill the chiken to show the monkeys what you are capable of” the best targets are philipines and vietnam preferably vietnam due to its proximity.
to fight these 2 countries China doesnt need to send a single land force to invade the countries,China only need to use its superiority PLA navy, missile strikes and air force to set up economic blocade by sea and air. China can starve any of those 2 nation to its knees and agree on CHina’s terms. when China has dealt with any one of them the other “monkeys” will move along qiuetly
Boris
@harry,
Don’t suggest malakia, I don’t think a war is good to anybody, besides history means nothing here, as the controversial is at sea, not land, and this is arena of Navy, a product of modern industry, where both Philipine and Vietnam is weak, China is comparably strong than them. But China is not that strong, which means it will be a hard task for Chinese Navy as well.And this controversial means only bargain on table, not battlefield in the near future, let’s see what come next.
yang zi
no blockade,just a quick strike.
a_canadian_observer
@harry: Well, mr. big talker, then what is china waiting for?
John Chan
@a_Canadian_observer:
You have forgotten this is an internet forum for people to debate different opinions, none of the bloggers have means to affect government’s actions. If you are a member of the Westpac government black information network to destabilize China, please declare yourself. Otherwise your challenge is childish and silly.
Anyhow if actions happened in the SCS, we will all be informed by the big bad mouth western media after the fact with a lot of exaggerations and fantasy story telling to smearing and slandering China.
Ngoa Long
How can you do that, China? Your generals have already known that south china sea would never be that easy for chinese navy to operate freely without suffering heavy casualties & damage! Moreover, south sea has belonged to all the Asian countries and the world, not China’s own lake or property!China still has time to think about it more positively before it’s too late!!
John Chan
@Ngoa Long:
“china sea would never be that easy for chinese navy to operate freely without suffering heavy casualties & damage!” Is it making the challenge to strike Vietnam and Philippine more interesting and fun? China wants to it not because it is easy, because it is hard. If China scares to be hit or suffers setback, what’s good are those generals? How the hell they are going the support China to fight against USA, Japan, etc. which are much more tougher enemies? Your mindset is defeatist mindset, definitely does not fit for a nation on the rise.
Ngoa Long
Are you a US citizen, Chan? I think there would be a time when those people like you shall be expelled/deported back to China, to live in your earthly heaven! No country in this world wants war except Communist China! Who and what gave China the right to own south china sea as its private property? Think about it before shrieking & blustering!!
ozivan
@Ngoa Long. No country in this world wants war except Communist China!
The US went to war in Vietnam over ideology, invaded Iraq based on WMD, France & UK attacked Libya over humanitarian protection.
They just need a nice sounding excuse to demonise those countries they invaded. Westerm mass media are very adept at creating a beautiful story to fit the plot.
Frank
China is also an Asia country.
Phil
Such a shameful teenager who knows nothing about strategy and just bluff. Typical pro-CPP blogger!
Pick the weakest/weaker and bully/attack is a common Chinese strategy but when face with the strong (Russia, US) they simply disappear and no where to be found.
History, not too long ago, showed that even the weaker can teach China a lesson (1979 war with Vietnam)that it is never like walk in the park.
John Chan
@Phil:
It seems you are the one knows nothing about strategy and a shameful teenager. As long as one can achieve objective, any strategy is a good strategy.
Fabricating facts regarding 1979 does not change the history that VN has learnt its lesson and settled the northern border disputes with China after 1979.
Cam
@John Chan – Not so many people forget China used to be a sick man of Asia so don’t use the same line again and again as how China was bullied by the West and Japanese. The irony is she is so easy to forget how she was treated. Now she is just a little richer, a bit stronger, then becomes a bully, robber to the weakers. Don’t expect the CCP treats non-Chinese better than its own citizens. How pathetic
Cam
Land grapping by force becomes things in the past. This is 21st century and China is too late for that game. Look at China today – just a little richer, trying to follow colonial path. Worse, she just can bully the weak. China, shame on you!
Frank
I agree. The days of land grabbing are over.
Now it is time that Chinese Navy needs to defend our land.
John Chan
Economy sanction is not effective, look at Iran, decades of blockade does not weaken Iran at all. Meanwhile China has to deal with all those high pitch anti-China demonetization and smearing harassment. Blockade and sanction is not the way to go, wipping out Philippines and Vietnam’s air force and navy is much cleaner and effective job.
Cam
@John Chan – Despite all the huffing and buffing, China will still find it won’t be easy to intimidate anyone into submission. All this threats and incessant bullying against neighbors are getting tiresome. What’s worse is the continuing lies and propaganda to confuse the public mass that Vietnam and the Philippines are picking on China. Talk about robbing and calling the police at the same time.
Cyrus
Harry why are Chinese so ignorant about the Philippines. There is a caveat in attacking the Philippines. First is it has a Mutual Defense Pact with the United States of American. Second, it is a major NON-NATO Ally and it is near Guam (Remember the Long Range Bombers of the United States?).
Frank
Since China is more worried about Taiwan, Philippine would be a good place to test American’s will to enter another Asia war.
American lost dearly many people in each and every East Asia war.
Will young Americans willing risk their lives to defend some little tiny islands for Philippine?
Cyrus:
Why don’t you pick a young American boy on the street and ask him?
Cyrus
Go ask 2LT Christopher Golab of the US Army a helicopter Pilot on his willingness to fight for the Philippines. Hes answer is an affirmative to defend an Ally in times of need.
Frank
If that is the case, China should strike Philippine occupied disputed islands first.
I used to think Vietnam should be one.
Actually Philippine is the best place to test Americans willingness to shed blood for other people cause.
Observer
@ yang zi – and china/chinese lines are the same old lines of “we are the greatest, we are going to beat so and so, we are the best”. I just show the true color of china/chinese. Who captured, stole fishes, beat up, then demanded ransom money from poor fishermen? Yes, that was china/chinese did that and are still doing that.
@ harry – spoke like a typical chinese, full of ignorant. Look it up and you shall learn that other countries have as long history, if not longer than china. Remember the line of “no dog or chinese allowed” before you call other countries as monkeys? Oh yes, other countries are so scared of the so called “superior” chinese military. Please do tell us how well china fought vs. competent military forces? Let see, Mongols, Manchus, Japanese, UK, just to name a few. Funny how you guys chinese never brag about that..haha.
Sinodefender
@Observer,I will list competent enemies that Chinese defeated,first off is civil wars,Xiongnu,Xianbei,Wuhuan,Qiang,Di,Tujue,Gorguryeo,Jurchens,Mongols etc
harry
japan, british and other western imperialists attacked China at it’s weakest, why dont you mention the most “competent” of all nations? the country who says they are the most powerful yet all they’ve done in the last 60 years is to beat up third world countries in stone age with a truck load of thugs? USA and its nato lap dogs. in the Korean war PLA were supplied with donkeys while usa an its gang used trucks but China were still able to push them back and forced the longest land retreat in american military history.
All China needs to do the solve the SCS dispute is to pick one of the countries around SCS and strike it hard and fast. no one will come to their rescue especially at a time where america japan and europe has serious economic problems. not to mention japan has a nuclear time bomb ticking in fukushima.
Observer
@sino – I said “competent military forces” and you listed a bunch of pathetic chinese tribes? Reading skill is very important. Mongols defeated by chinese? Oh really? Then who defeated the Song dynasty and took all of chinese as slaves and chinese women as concubines? Oh yes, the fearsome Mongols. The same Mongols established the Yuan dynasty and tried to attack little Vietnam with chinese slaves not one, not two but THREE TIMES and were defeated by little Vietnam.
@harry – Mongols defeated Song dynasty when Song was strong, stop lying. If you were not so ignorant, you should know that US General MacArthur suggested to drop a few atomic bombs on the hordes of chinese barbarians but President Truman did not want to waste those precious bombs on those hordes.
Again, talk is cheap, typical of chinese – inferior complex. Could not fight against anyone but all talk.
BTW, if you chinese are so tough, go ahead and attack Russia, the same one that killed chinese and took the land north of Amur river. What the matter? Why so cowardice? Haha.
Ly Tran Le Nguyen
All this belicose talks remind me of the time living in District 5 of Saigon, near the Chinese enclave of Cho Lon. As kids usually did back then, the Chinese kids always felt like they had to go teach the adjacent neighborhood kids a lesson for “making fun of the Chinese”, or simply for kicking their plastic soccer ball into the Chinese neighborhood.
Once in a while, those Chinese kids did make good on their threats by coming to our block, wearing their Kung Fu uniform and carrying martial art weapons. I remembered they looked so high and mighty and as a little kid, I was actually nervous seeing them. The Chinese kids would chase our little kids deep into our neighborhood alleyways, only to see that the gate was put up behind them. That was when they get surrounded and beaten to puff by the bigger kids. Of course, many of our guys would get hurt, but we managed to defeat the “invaders” as they ran for their lives. “Peace” then returned to the neighborhood for at least a few more weeks.
Now, every time I see a bunch of Chinese bloggers posting threats of war and such, I couldn’t help but wondering if they really knew what it felt like getting whipped by a bunch of “barbarians” of the South. Perhaps, in their own comfort at home, they forgot to learn their lessons from history. Or better yet, they should go ask the PLA veterans who fought in the 1979 to see how it felt like being defeated by a bunch of old men and women in the Vietnamese border militia.
John
Old men and Women are you kidding?
I watched a documentary about that, and they interviewed a Chinese indiviual who was still in a hospital and they asked him how he got wounded.
He stated that they attacked the Vietnamese and set up camp that night, but then the next morning they got orders to move back. The Vietnamese had moved through thier lines overnight and laid mines behind them and so when they moved back they hit a minefield. He got hit.
Thats not old people, thats military skills, and while I can’t support the North Vietnamese, you have to give them credit. They have skills.
Vietnam would not be a walk over even today. Personally I would wait thirty years until all the soldiers who fourht in the Vietnam war had died. The US was not a push over in 1970 and yet they still underestimated the North and even the South I would argue.
Realism
China will strike back just on their own terms. Newspapers are usually the exact opposite of official government policy. Don’t believe me, just read wikileak related news and the newspapers around the same time period. (Almost a perfect opposite on most issues and nearly on all issues)
Eventually, they will own Vietnam and India because it controls the river flowing through it. They can play that some many ways its not even funny. I am not happy about an aggressive China, but those countries are going to be left out in the cold when the Chinese really want to be aggressive. Georgia believed it had US backing and the Russia called its buff. If Chinese choose fight a resource and financial war, those countries are going to have a hard time defending themselves. (The Chinese don’t want a shooting war, but they are preparing for it which is unfortunate as it might lead to a real one if both sides overplay their hand) US is too overextended and would like the Chinese to have their own Vietnam rather than helping the small countries. It is going to play it both ways.
EAM
Politics concerning river waters are indeed fraught. Strangely, the “gold standard” for sharing of river waters appears to be that between India and Pakistan where even when the countries were at war, the Indians ensured that the river waters kept flowing into Pakistan. If they can do this, I would have thought that the countries sharing the Mekong and the Brahmaputra can also do so. If indeed China did turn off the waters of the Brahmaputra, it is Bangladesh and not India that would suffer most.
All of this of course assumes that there will still be rivers flowing in a couple of decades after the ravages of global warming take effect. We see our major river the Murray Darling struggling.
It should also be noted that China (and also India) are becoming world leaders in dealing with these problems and the related problem of over-reliance on fossil fuels. If in a few decades we have successfully transitioned to a low carbon economy, it would have been a tragedy for the Chinese are their neighbours to have entered into conflict (partly) over the fossil fuels in the South China Sea which no one any longer wants.
John Cao Cao
Calm down! Let the Viets handle the chinese bellicose. Just pour dollars in Vietnam and all the weapons that is intended to test on the Chinese, the Viets will blow them up “beutifully”. By the way, thanks for million tons of US bombs that now can re-use on the Chinese. The Viet militia never worry that they will run out ammunition, a rusted US 500 pounds bomb that can kill a tank and many “good” Chinese officers. How much time and money that China can produce a good officer? The Viet militia have skills to kill plenty of Chinese ground forces. Who will bet 1 against 100 for this show on CNN? We need popcorns and Coca Cola to view late news until Chinese run with its tail tuck behind its legs.
John Chan
@John Cao Cao:
Are you talking what are happening to USA troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? No wonder USA troops dare not step in Libya.
Frank
Vietnam is and has always been a new weapon test ground.
Pier
@John Chan, Yang Zi, et al,
When you have time, please visit the cemeteries of of dead Chinese soldiers in 1979 war, along the China Southern boders. Get the facts right about the number of young Chinese soldiers had to die for the CCP and loud mouth people like you. Just do the counting.
Will you be at the frontline this time? Remember, there will be no cemeteries in the SCS; just being the good feast fo fish.
Watch this film to get an idea what it’s like to have a war with Vienam.
The Viet Nam – China war 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmxDV27Jqjk&feature=related
John Chan
@Pier:
Your argument is flawed, all wars caused casualties be it soldiers and civilians. China built cemeteries for its fallen heroes, shouldn’t Vietnam do the same? Are you telling me VN has never built any cemeteries for their dead in 1979? How heartless and cruel are Vietnamese to their own people.
China took care the injured and killed Vietnamese soldiers in SCS in the last few battles. China will do the same next time.
You have been watching too much those propaganda on youtube, they are clouding your mind now.
Pier
John Chan, you are just making things up as usual. All dead Vietnamese soldiers were brought back to their home town for proper burial ceremonies. Chinese soldiers were left rotted before got sorted out.
The point is, will you be at the front line this time? Or just talk and trying get other single child of an average Chinese family being sent to their death? Ad a journalist, I was at both sides of the border. I saw the real aftermath.
John
Pier, if thats true then I would like to sit down and have a chat some time.
As a historian interested in Vietnam, then it would be an interesting chat for me.
Pier
John, I hope you could listen to French.
Perhaps, the following 1997 Sino-Vietnam border war French documentary films could speak much better than myself.
Starting with Part-1 (below) out of 7 parts in the same archive DB.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WTFmode1#p/u/16/EwquvLE_85k
As a Historian then you probably might know, during the first round of fighting, the Vietnamese used mostly the local militia volunteers with the guidance of some profesional soldiers.
Behind the local forces along the borders, VN had over 300,000 very battle experienced fighting soldiers (and advanced Soviet Union weaponry) awaiting for the Chinese soldiers to come in.
More than likely, due to the UN’s pressure, or the Russian ready to intervene from the north of China’s borders, or China realized that after 2 weeks of fighting and 10 of thousands of Chinses soldiers got killed (but they were still unable to break through the local militia defense forces), so they decided to withdraw from VN. Just imagined if the Chinese had to fight with the hundreds of thousands professional soldiers awaiting for them.
As suggested, let’s the French documentaries speak for themselves.
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan: Why so quiet? Don’t you want to reply Pier? Is this your new way of conceeding?
Observer
@ Pier – thank for the link and how you shown the chinese of how people around the world debate. You debate by provide well know source(s) to back up your statements and not by clueless and ignorant statements. Well done.
Observer
@ John Chan who said “All F-22s have been grounded more than half a year now due to lack of spare parts from China”.
FACTS: F22s were temporary grounded and inspected due to the circulation air system for the pilots, NOT about any parts from china. Unlike china, the US is very careful with quality issues, not like china and the ccp.
Here is the story, read for yourself = http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/77-billion-22-raptor-fleet-grounded-indefinitely/story?id=13545306
Dear the readers of the Diplomat, what will be next? Commenters from china will claim that all airplanes in the world are made in china..haha.
Phil
Man man how could he lie as such (F-22 assembled in China????) without feeling shame?
Well it is typical John Chan that we see everyday in Diplomat, who could tell/post lies anytime anywhere, sometimes he even forgot that this forum is not in China. So that is why he got caught
Phil
Should read “with parts from China”
Cyrus
This is for the Information of every1. Philippine Raison d’etat is to preserve the Sovereign Territory of the Philippines, it will not give up an inch of its Sovereign Territory and yes Reed Bank is part of it.
The desideratum is that Sovereignty is one of the most important in the Philippines hence the decades long war with the Moro in the South because of Sovereignty and it will continue to do so until the Moro accept that Mindanao will never leave the Philippines.
Cyrus
The First Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolos_Constitution
It was ratified by Philippine Representatives in 1898.
Guest
Tibet.
The world sees how china treats tibet and trembles. China cannot treat others better than it treats its own citizens.
Tibet.
Mike Harrison
Seems the answer is to send the specially trained mosquitoes as told here
http://bit.ly/pSGjex
Jake
No unreasonable U shape on South China sea, then no war. The Chinese GOV cannot explain very clearly the fundamentation of their claiming U shape
Tim
Evertime when I read this book “Death by China”, I’m wondering about John Chan and Yang Zi.
http://www.deathbychina.com/
yang zi
Tim, thanks for mentioning, I clicked that link. I think this book can be your little red book. read it every morning, it will guide your day.
the key word from the book is, it is mostly american’s own doing, so why blame China?
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan:
Why do you twist SAE nation’s desire to protect their sovereignty as a source of trouble? Don’t you agree they should have the right to defend themselves despite they want peace, against the “rise peacefully” lie?
Nobody surrounds China with fully loaded armed bases, conducting threatening military manoeuvres along China’s coasts, escalating arm race, inciting all Asian neighbours to be hostile towards China, mobilizing full scale cold war assaults with black information network, starting all out financial war to crash China, undermining China’s effort to stabilize EU zone, etc., as you’ve been programmed/brainwashed to believe. John Chan, you badmouth the USA and insult the SAE nations as USA’s lackeys and have been lead to believe that thy want to attack China? Obviously you really need some mental help.
Accusing China not cooperating baselessly definitely is not the right way to show USA has real desire to maintain world peace and prosperity cooperatively, but a prove to repeat a 19th century imperialistic agenda to harm China.
SCdad07
Although the writer of the China Daily article is an analyst and expressing his opinion. That is not the government position the last 20 or so years.
If it is US, bombs and missiles would have dropped on Vietnam’s people years ago.
Didn’t US Vietnam war start when US accused N.Vietnam attached one of it’s vessel?
Vietnam’s 2010 trade deficit was approximately US12.7 billion with 11.3 in China’s favor (from beyond-brics). Why beat up your good customer?
John Cao Cao
Vietnam is always as the gate of hell for “superpowers”, if China wants to venture in, it will be chopped off … But, then Vietnam is just a diversion or simply a trap to bog down Chinese, and the war gives valuable time for other “superpowers” to roll back China business to point zero from South America to Africa; it also helps the West kick China out of Myanma (to bust China’s oil pipe project), roll back Chinese influence on Pakistan, North Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanca … Already, these countries have been courted by India, Japan and others. War with Vietnam will like a dose of poison that will go through China’s blood stream to weaken it, before it falls prey to other powers who will blow a mortal killing to finish China inside out.
american spy
The Sultanate State of Sulu is the legal owner of the Spratlys Archipelago but since the Sultan Kiram turnover his territorial and proprietary rights of the State to the Republic of the Philippines including the North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys in 1960’s, then legally it belongs to the Philippines.
Archipelagic Bases
Under the UN International Laws of Sea, despite the opposition of maritime powers, the Philippines and four other states (Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Fiji and Bahamas) got the approval in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982. They were qualified as archipelagic states.
The Spratlys is within Philippines proximity and connected in the Philippines’ archipelago with just few kilometers from the province of Palawan of the Philippines, this boost the claim of the Philippines. Other claimants are not archipelagic states and they are far from beyond the limit of the UNCLOS of 200 nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone. The Philippines as an archipelagic country & within proximity, it counts merit in administering the Spratlys.
UN Convention – International Law of Sea (UNCLOS) bases
China argued that there is no word proximity mentioned in the UNCLOS so they insisted that they could claim the Spratlys. Though there is no “proximity” mentioned, the UNCLOS clearly explain the 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) which is more clear explanation than proximity. Proximity is just to say near but the measurement of 200 Nautical Miles from the base line of the Philippines is not just synonym to proximity but a clear measurement of distance.
Under the UNCLOS, it guarantees 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive economic Zone which most part of the Spratlys is just within 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone of the Philippines. This is the strongest bases of the Philippines to say “We owned the West Philippines Sea”. Even China is a signatory in these and they even agree with this together with the United Nations.
The History as bases of claim
Back to Majapahit and Sri Vijaya Empire in year 7000 or 7th century (The ancient kingdom in Indonesia and Malay Archipelago) the territory is extended from the North Borneo, Palawan, and the Spratlys of the Philippines’ territory.
The Sultanate State of Sulu was established during that regime which area includes Part of Mindanao (Cotabato, Lanao, Zamboanga Peninsula), Basilan, Sulu Sea, and Sulu.
During the 14 century or year 1400 the King /Sultan of Brunei give as gift to his cousin Sultan of Sultanate of Sulu the “North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys” for helping him to win a battle. The China recognized the Sultanate State of Sulu that includes the North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys archipelago.
When the Spain invaded the Philippines in year 1621, the sultanate state of Sulu remains un-conquered but portion of the territory was controlled by Spain including the whole Island of Mindanao, and Palawan.
When the Britain gives independence to Malaysia, North Borneo is under a lease agreement which is until now is recognized by Malaysia was illegally included reason why the Sultan of Sulu calling the Malaysian Governmet to stop controlling his land “North Borneo” (Sabah) which is also link to Spratlys.
The Sultan of Sulu turnover his territorial and proprietary rights of the State to the Republic of the Philippines including the Palawan and the Spratlys in 1960’s.
The History, the UNCLOS International law of Sea, the archipelagic states theory says “The Spratlys is belonged to the Philippines.
The Spratlys archipelago
At the moment they are administered by the Philippines, but some are claimed by Brunei, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia.
They comprise less than five square kilometers of land area, spread over more than 400,000 square kilometers of sea. The Spratlys, as they are called, are part of the three archipelagos of the South China Sea, comprising more than 30,000 islands and reefs and which so complicates geography, governance and economics in that region of Southeast Asia. Such small and remote islands have little economic value in themselves, but are important in establishing international boundaries. There are no native islanders but there are rich fishing grounds and initial surveys indicate the islands may contain significant oil and gas.
About 45 islands are occupied by relatively small numbers of military forces from the People’s Republic of China, the Republic of China (Taiwan), Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam. Brunei has claimed an *EEZ* in the southeastern part of the Spratlys.
*Exclusive Economic Zone, under the law of the sea, an EEZ is a sea zone over which a state has special rights over the exploration and use of marine resources.
The Disputed Spratlys is within the Philippine Waters. The Philippines is the legal owner of the islands in the Spratlys as it is within 200 Nautical Mile Exclusive Economic Zone said United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)
THE PHILIPPINES AND THE ARCHIPELAGIC DOCTRINE
Archipelago is defined as a sea or part of a sea studded with islands, often synonymous with island groups, or as a large group of islands in an extensive body of water, such as sea. (De Leon, 1991)
In various conferences of the United Nations on the Law of the Sea, the Philippines and other archipelago states proposed that an archipelagic state composed of groups of islands forming a state is a single unit, with the islands and the waters within the baselines as internal waters. By this concept (archipelagic doctrine), an archipelago shall be regarded as a single unit, so that the waters around, between, and connecting the islands of the archipelago, irrespective of their breadth and dimensions, form part of the internal waters of the state, subject to its exclusive sovereignty.
Despite the opposition of maritime powers, the Philippines and four other states (Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Fiji and Bahamas) got the approval in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea held in Jamaica last December 10, 1982. They were qualified as archipelagic states. The archipelagic doctrine is now incorporated in Chapter IV of the said convention. It legalizes the unity of land, water and people into a single entity
The Philippines bolstered the archipelagic principle in defining its territory when it included in Article 1 of the 1987 Constitution the following:
“The national territory comprises the Philippine Archipelago, with all the islands and waters embraced therein xxx”; and
“The waters around, between and connecting the islands of the archipelago, regardless of their dimensions, form part of the internal waters of the Philippines.”
On the strength of these assertions, the Philippines Archipelago is considered as one integrated unit instead of being divided into more than seven thousand islands. The outermost of our archipelago are connected with straight baselines and all waters inside the baselines are considered as internal waters. This makes the large bodies of waters connecting the islands of the archipelago like Mindanao Sea, Sulo Sea and the Sibuyan Sea part of the Philippines as its internal waters, similar to the rivers and lakes found within the islands themselves.
The archipelagic principle however is subject to the following limitations:
a) respect for the right of the ship and other states to pass through the territorial as well as archipelagic waters
b) respect to right of innocent passage
c) respect for passage through archipelagic sea lanes subject to the promulgation by local authorities of pertinent rules and regulations.
The Philippines & the Spratly Islands History- Srivijaya Empire in 1400 (The Sultanate State of Sulu)
Back to Majapahit and Sri Vijaya Empire in year 7000 or 7th century (The ancient kingdom in Indonesia and Malay Archipelago) the territory is extended from the North Borneo, Palawan, and the Spratlys of the Philippines’ territory.
The Sultanate State of Sulu was established during that regime which area includes Part of Mindanao (Cotabato, Lanao, Zamboanga Peninsula), Basilan, Sulu Sea, and Sulu.
During the 14 century or year 1400 the King /Sultan of Brunei give as gift to his cousin Sultan of Sultanate of Sulu the “North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys” for helping him to win a battle. The China recognized the Sultanate State of Sulu that includes the North Borneo, Palawan and the Spratlys archipelago.
When the Spain invaded the Philippines in year 1621, the sultanate state of Sulu remains un-conquered but portion of the territory was controlled by Spain including the whole Island of Mindanao, and Palawan.
When the Britain gives independence to Malaysia, North Borneo is under a lease agreement which is until now is recognized by Malaysia was illegally included reason why the Sultan of Sulu calling the Malaysian Government to stop controlling his land “North Borneo” (Sabah) which is also link to Spratlys.
The Sultan of Sulu turnover his territorial and proprietary rights of the State to the Republic of the Philippines including the Palawan and the Spratlys in 1960’s.
Spratlys Islands or Kalayaan Island Group is just within the Philippines’ proximity and 200 Nautical Miles Exclusive Economic Zone – under the International Laws Sea – UNCLOS. The Philippines as the closest and archipelagic country of the Spratly island with another Five Asian countries claim the Spratly Islands including – China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei. Disputes among these six parties have led to various minor military skirmishes, the detention of fisherfolk and diplomatic rows in the past three decades.
Control of the Spratlys is important since the region is supposed to contain large deposits of oil, gas, hydrocarbon and mineral resources. The islands are also strategically located in the sea lanes for commerce and transport in the South China Sea which is very close to the Palawan Province of the Philippines with a distant less than 200 nautical miles; a bases that Philippines has a legal ground that those islands are part of the Philippines.
The Spratlys consist of about 26 islands and islets and 7 groups of rocks in the South China Sea found approximately between the latitude of 4 degrees to 11 degrees 30′N. and longitude 109 degrees 30′E. They have a maritime area of 160,000 square kilometers and an insular area of about 170 hectares.
The Spratlys are popular among fishermen. However, they are considered dangerous for commercial navigation. Maps from the early part of the last century have advised seamen to avoid passing through them.
Japan explored the Spratlys for military reasons during World War II. The British Admiralty and U.S. Navy have also ordered some top secret missions there. But the U.S. Navy never released the new charts of the Spratlys to civilian authorities. Writer Francois-Xavier Bonnet wonders about the role of the Spratlys during the Vietnam War.
In 1933 a Philippine senator protested the French annexation of the Spratlys. A parliamentary committee studied the issue but the U.S. government, which controlled the Philippines at that time, did not take an interest in the matter.
In 1946 Vice President Elpidio Quirino claimed the Spratlys on behalf of the Philippine government. A year later, the Philippine Secretary of Foreign Affairs declared that the “New Southern Islands” previously occupied by Japan during World War II were part of Philippine territory.
In 1955 the Philippine military reported that the Spratly island group was of “vital proximity” to the country. The following year, Filipino navigator and businessman Tomas Cloma issued a “proclamation to the whole world” claiming ownership and occupation of the Spratlys. Cloma sent six letters to the government about the need to settle the question of ownership of the islands.
The vice president of the Philippines replied in 1957, assuring Cloma that the government “does not regard with indifference the economic exploitation and settlement of these uninhabited and unoccupied islands by Philippine nationals.”
According to Filipino law professor Haydee Yorac, the Cloma Proclamation was the first assertion of title to the Spratlys after Japan renounced its ownership of the islands in 1951 and 1952.
In 1978 President Ferdinand Marcos issued a proclamation declaring ownership of most of the islands in the Spratlys. The area was renamed the Kalayaan (Freedom) Island Group. The proclamation laid the following basis for the Philippine claim: “By virtue of their proximity and as part of the continental margin of the Philippine archipelago”; that “they do not legally belong to any state or nation, but by reason of history; indispensable need, and effective occupation and control established in accordance with international law”; and while other states have laid claims to some of these areas, their claims have lapsed by abandonment and cannot prevail over that of the Philippines on legal, historical, and equitable ground.”
In 1995 President Fidel Ramos articulated the Philippine position regarding the Spratlys issue. He said “I would like to clarify that the Philippines does not only claim eight islands in the south China Sea but owns all islands and waters in the Spratlys as defined in the presidential decree issued by former President Marcos.”
Militarization of the Spratlys started in the 1970s. The Philippines sent a military contingent to occupy some of the islands in 1971. After four years, the Philippines had already established a military presence in six islands. Today, the Philippines occupies eight islands in the area
Andrew Chubb
Just a quick correction: Long Tao doesn’t mean “way of the dragon” (that would be Long Dao 龙道).
Long Tao 龙韬 literally means “dragon bow-case”, but its significance is that the “tao 韬” is the first character of “taoguang yanghui 韬光养晦”, Deng’s policy of “concealing our capabilities” – ie. lying low – the policy that Professor Dreyer alludes to.
Andrew Chubb
Sorry i’m a goose, should’ve checked the dictionary first before opening my trap. 韬 can indeed mean “way”, or at least it did a couple of thousand years ago – each of the Six Secret Teachings is a 韬.
EAM
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/10/12/china-vietnam-sign-deal-resolve-sea-dispute.html
This is the best way to “strike back”.
Trung
@ Chinese
Your country is not actual rich and strong, they are all faked, I was admired china with her history, moral value, lenience. China should create a civilized society to everyone, every social class and be positive impact to its neighbors, especially to the Vietnam, A country with similar culture.
Everything I hope going down. China is so greedy, tries to make rich with any cost, polluted environment, eroded morality, and poisoned other countries and itself.
Its Peaceful rising policy just veils its real purpose to become suzerain in the past china considered it as if it had been the center of the world
I cried to pray for little Yue Yue recovery, poor lovely Chinese child was run over and left alone to death, she’s gone.
Chinese society have been sabotaged by chinese, you all bloggers go around internet cry for teaching Vietnam a lesson, you should cry for your own country take many lesson itself how to be civilized Society before being rioted. That thing I don’t want definitely.
Ciao fu
US should have left the Japanese take over China
dragon slayer
These Chinese are becoming very arrogant, listening to them threaten to teach smaller nations in SE Asia a lesson makes me hate all Chinese. I think it is time to take them down a few notches . NUKE CHINA UNTIL THERE IS NO CHINA MAN LEFT, SEND ALL YOUR NUKES TO CHINA.