Late last month, tension in the South China Sea was ratcheted up a further when three Chinese marine surveillance ships threatened the Vietnamese seismic survey ship Binh Minh 02 and sabotaged its seismic equipment. The incident took place 120 nautical miles from Vietnam’s mainland coast and 340 nautical miles from China’s Hainan Island, well inside Vietnam’s 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ).
For anyone wondering if this incident is somehow tied to the Paracels and Spratlys disputes, then the answer is no. The Binh Minh incident took place closer to the Vietnamese coast than the Paracels or the Spratlys. According to international law and state practice, the Spratlys and Paracels’ islands and rocks are only entitled to either a territorial sea of 12 nautical miles or, at most, a territorial sea plus an EEZ that doesn’t extend much beyond 12 nautical miles. By no stretch of the imagination, then, could their EEZs extend to or past the midlines between them and the coastlines surrounding the South China Sea.
With this in mind, it has been interesting to follow the ensuing war of words between Vietnam and China.
On May 27, Vietnam sent a diplomatic note to the Chinese Ambassador in Hanoi accusing China of violating the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and Vietnam’s sovereign rights in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
The following day, China retorted that what it did was ‘completely normal marine law enforcement and surveillance activities in China's jurisdictional sea area.’
But as ‘jurisdictional sea area’ isn’t one of the maritime zones defined in the UNCLOS, it remains unclear what exactly China meant by that term, and what might be the legal basis for it.
The exchange of barbs continued on May 29, when Vietnam retaliated by saying that it was conducting its exploration entirely within its 200-nautical-mile EEZ and continental shelf, ‘in accordance with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. It is neither a disputed area nor is it an area “managed by China.” China has deliberately misled the public into thinking that it is a disputed area.’
Effectively, Vietnam was saying that the area wasn’t part of the Paracels and Spratlys disputes.
Two days later, China hit back, claiming that its action was, ‘law enforcement activities by Chinese maritime surveillance ships against Vietnam's illegally operating ships are completely justified.’ It urged Vietnam to ‘immediately stop infringement activities and refrain from creating new troubles.’
Once again, China failed to state its claim in terms of UNCLOS maritime zones. Nor did it specify any limit or cite international law to support its claim.
This latest development bears a striking resemblance to the Reed Bank incident in March, when two Chinese patrol boats threatened a seismic survey ship operating on behalf of the Philippines. That incident also took place nearer to the Philippines’ Palawan coast than to the contested Spratlys. In both cases, China asserted its claims without any limit or justification based on the UNCLOS or international law. The Philippines’ riposte was that the Reed Bank isn't part of the Spratlys and therefore isn't subject to the Spratlys dispute.
In the past, China has made similar claims against Malaysia at James’ Shoal, against Indonesia over the waters near the Natuna Islands, and against Vietnam in the Vanguard Bank and Blue Dragon areas. These claims, together with the Reed Bank and Binh Minh incidents, should dispel any doubts that China is trying to expand its control well beyond the disputed Paracels, Spratlys and Scarborough Reef, and their associated waters.
A common feature with all these claims and clashes is that they all involve areas inside the mysterious 'U-shaped line' that, some time during the last century, China started putting on its maps. Over the years, this U-shaped line gradually expanded until it covered most of the South China Sea, to within less than a hundred nautical miles of other countries’ coastlines, without any justification based on international law or customs.
Although the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei are all directly affected by this expansionist policy, the first two, being the countries that are nearest to China, will bear the brunt of Chinese expansion, for a number of reasons.
First, these two nations’ maritime spaces will clearly be affected the most. Second, if China doesn't try to claim the Philippines and Vietnam’s maritime spaces, its claims over Malaysia’s, Indonesia’s and Brunei’s will disintegrate. This means that while China might make compromises at the southern tip of its notorious U-shaped line to keep Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei quiet while it deals with the Philippines and Vietnam first, it can't do the reverse and give up its claims in the Philippines’ and Vietnam’s maritime spaces in order to gain the southern tip. Of course, if China is successful in getting its way against the Philippines and Vietnam, Malaysia’s, Indonesia’s and Brunei’s turns will come.
As a result, both the Philippines and Vietnam have been put in a situation where they need to resolutely protect their legitimate maritime spaces. At stake are more than economic interests: they also have reasons to fear that their security and national independence are threatened.
Although there remain differences between the Philippines and Vietnam over the Spratlys, there's much more scope for the two nations to co-operate in defending their respective maritime spaces that don't belong to the Spratlys. Given China’s extensive claims, these maritime spaces may be far more significant than those belonging to the disputed Spratlys.
The Philippines’ note verbale to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf after the Reed Bank incident highlights how the country is using UNCLOS to defend its rights in the South China Sea. With Vietnam relying on the same body of law, the two nations have a common framework for co-operation.
For example, if Vietnam and the Philippines could voice their diplomatic support for each other in incidents such as the Reed Bank and Binh Minh ones, it would benefit both nations. More fundamentally, though, analysts and diplomats from the two nations should get together with their counterparts from Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia to decide what exactly the Spratlys consist of and how much maritime space can be attributed to them, which would lead to a collective agreement on the extent of the contested areas in the South China Sea. This will help these nations in individually and collectively opposing China’s attempts to expand the South China Sea dispute into previously uncontested areas. It will also help to convince the world of the merit of their case.
Another path that the Philippines and Vietnam could explore is making joint submissions of their continental shelf claims to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, possibly with the participation of Malaysia and Brunei.
Either of these actions would be without prejudice to the question of sovereignty over the Spratlys, and would benefit the Philippines and Vietnam enormously in counteracting China’s expansive claims in the South China Sea.
Huy Duong contributes articles on the South China Sea to several news outlets including the BBC and Vietnam's online publication VietNamNet.








MattC
Greedy China, shame on you. When you’re done raping your own lands so theres no minerals, water or food left you decide to bully small countries into ceding their sovereign waters to you. Shame on you!
Bitter Pill
If China isn’t careful with its stupid claims its going to push all these countries into USA’s lap,,, there might be many more US / Nato bases coming up in the south china sea
John Chan
China has followed Deng’s idea of “leave disputes aside and co-develop the area first” for a long time; with the US’ backing the SE Asia nations and Japan see China’s conciliatory approach as weakness, so they take advantage on China. After long and hard thinking, China decided a little bit of force was needed in the ingredients of persuasion to make nations surrounding China to accommodate China’s point of view.
In Geopolitics and Realpolitik, friends is a luxurious term, even Singapore prefers USA and is wary of China, it is a delusion to win friends among China’s surrounding nations. China will have friends until China can deep integrate its surrounding nations like the US has deep integrated her surrounding nations.
Yes, there are many more US bases (not NATO) coming up in the South China Sea even without the disputes in South China Sea. Nobody is expecting the US will do the otherwise. Europeans are mindless enough to follow the US into South China to confront China. Bitter Pill, you better ask the American people to swallow that bitter pill of mindless excessive military spending for the ego trip like yours. Bitter Pill, there is one simple maths the US must know, due to geography and cost advantages China has, every dollar China spends on arms, the US at least needs to spend 10 dollars to even it out.
So who is stupid, only smart people like you can figure it out. One more thing, you must forget about the WMD bluff, because USA won’t use it.
Anne
John Chan, what you said above just prove one thing: China has evil ambitions. Yes, Greedy China.
vokoyo
International Recognition Of China Sovereignty over the Nansha Islands
1. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and the Northern Island
(a) China Sea Pilot compiled and printed by the Hydrography Department of the Royal Navy of the United Kingdom in 1912 has accounts of the activities of the Chinese people on the Nansha Islands in a number of places.
(b) The Far Eastern Economic Review (Hong Kong) carried an article on Dec. 31 of 1973 which quotes the British High Commissioner to Singapore as having said in 1970: “Spratly Island (Nanwei Island in Chinese) was a Chinese dependency, part of Kwangtung Province… and was returned to China after the war. We can not find any indication of its having been acquired by any other country and so can only conclude it is still held by communist China.”
2. France
(a) Le Monde Colonial Illustre mentioned the Nansha Islands in its September 1933 issue. According to that issue, when a French gunboat named Malicieuse surveyed the Nanwei Island of the Nansha Islands in 1930, they saw three Chinese on the island and when France invaded nine of the Nansha Islands by force in April 1933, they found all the people on the islands were Chinese, with 7 Chinese on the Nanzi Reef, 5 on the Zhongye Island, 4 on the Nanwei Island, thatched houses, water wells and holy statues left by Chinese on the Nanyue Island and a signboard with Chinese characters marking a grain storage on the Taiping Island.
(b) Atlas International Larousse published in 1965 in France marks the Xisha, Nansha and Dongsha Islands by their Chinese names and gives clear indication of their ownership as China in brackets.
3. Japan
(a) Yearbook of New China published in Japan in 1966 describes the coastline of China as 11 thousand kilometers long from Liaodong Peninsula in the north to the Nansha Islands in the south, or 20 thousand kilometers if including the coastlines of all the islands along its coast;
(b) Yearbook of the World published in Japan in 1972 says that Chinese territory includes not only the mainland, but also Hainan Island, Taiwan, Penghu Islands as well as the Dongsha, Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands on the South China Sea.
4. The United States
(a) Columbia Lippincott World Toponymic Dictionary published in the United States in 1961 states that the Nansha Islands on the South China Sea are part of Guangdong Province and belong to China.
(b) The Worldmark Encyclopaedia of the Nations published in the United States in 1963 says that the islands of the People’s Republic extend southward to include those isles and coral reefs on the South China Sea at the north latitude 4°.
(c) World Administrative Divisions Encyclopaedia published in 1971 says that the People’s Republic has a number of archipelagoes, including Hainan Island near the South China Sea, which is the largest, and a few others on the South China Sea extending to as far as the north latitude 4°, such as the Dongsha, Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands.
5. Viet Nam
(a) Vice Foreign Minister Dung Van Khiem of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam received Mr. Li Zhimin, charge d’affaires ad interim of the Chinese Embassy in Viet Nam and told him that “according to Vietnamese data, the Xisha and Nansha Islands are historically part of Chinese territory.” Mr. Le Doc, Acting Director of the Asian Department of the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry, who was present then, added that “judging from history, these islands were already part of China at the time of the Song Dynasty.”
(b) Nhan Dan of Viet Nam reported in great detail on September 6, 1958 the Chinese Government’s Declaration of September 4, 1958 that the breadth of the territorial sea of the People’s Republic of China should be 12 nautical miles and that this provision should apply to all territories of the People’s Republic of China, including all islands on the South China Sea. On September 14 the same year, Premier Pham Van Dong of the Vietnamese Government solemnly stated in his note to Premier Zhou Enlai that Viet Nam “recognizes and supports the Declaration of the Government of the People’s Republic of China on China’s territorial sea.”
(c) It is stated in the lesson The People’s Republic of China of a standard Vietnamese school textbook on geography published in 1974 that the islands from the Nansha and Xisha Islands to Hainan Island and Taiwan constitute a great wall for the defense of the mainland of China.
John Chan
Recently both Vietnam and China declared South China Sea issues are matters between these two nations only; no third party is welcome to interfere. Yet the author insists to internationalize the internal affairs of these two nations, is he speaking on behalf of interventionist world hegemony against the will of Asians? Is it old style imperialism in practice again?
Since it is a disputed area, before the settlement, both sides of the claimants will try to establish position for negotiation. China’s action is not different from Vietnam’s action, conducting oil exploration in disputed area unilaterally.
There was a war before Vietnam proceeded to resolve land disputed areas with China, would Vietnam take a similar approach to resolve maritime disputed areas with China? I hope China can persuade Vietnam to do the otherwise.
The author’s position is really puzzling, his confrontational mindset makes him talks nothing but creating hostility between nations surrounding South China Sea, the whole article is nothing but containing China in disguise.
Anne
John Chan, just want to remind you that China’s threatening actions against Vietnamese’s ships did not take place in disputed area. It was well inside Vietnam’s 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ).
Ly Tran Le Nguyen
It was not a “disputed” area. These repeated incidents occurred deep inside Vietnam’s 200-mile exclusive economic zone. What China did was a blatant invasion of others’ territorial waters. Stop claiming things that clearly never belonged to China.
Alex Nguyen
John Chan – I’m sure that you are Chinese and a horrible Chinese, not a good one.
I am Vietnamese. I love my country and I believe that there are so many good Chinese people in China who never want to start war and bring miseries upon another country just to prove that China is more powerful than that country. I believe there are so many good Chinese people who believe that starting a war will not bring anyone happiness and killing innocent people from other countries (or Chinese own soldiers) just to satisfy your own greed and ambition is just simply inhuman, cruel, socially unacceptable, sadistic, tyrannical, barbarous and vicious.
You are definitely not one of these Good Chinese people. You are the representative of power-hungry, blood thirsty, nationalistic and militaristic Chinese, who always want to spread the ugly Chinese octopus tentacles to every part of land and sea around China, disregard of the fact that these territories already belong to other countries. Did Kǒng Fūzǐ (孔夫子) teach you (John Chan) that Chinese people should be sympathetic and care about human life more than a horse (even at the time when a horse was worth 10 times the price of a human slave?) Did he also teach Chinese people that if you try to force your power on anyone, your action is considered as brutality? Did he also teach you that as a person, you need to be just and fair? You said that because the US backs up SE Asia so China need to show how powerful China is. However, my country – Vietnam never cooperate with any other country to launch a threat against China or harm Chinese people. History had proved that China has always been the country who tried to invade Vietnam for countless times. Vietnam only cooperates with other countries on economic and financial terms to propel our national economy. So China is willing to violate Vietnam’s sovereignty just because of a groundless suspicion that the US is backing up Vietnam to confront China when Vietnamese people just desire peace more than anything else. Where is the justice in that action? Or China just basically made an excuse to rape Vietnam’s sea to expand its power? There are so many more great teachings from China’s most honourable teacher but I dare say, many horrible Chinese people (including you, John Chan) have already shoved into the trash bin.
China’s territories are over 9 millions km2, Vietnam is just a tiny little country with more than 330 km2, existing independently of China for more than 3000 years despite countless invasions from this evil neighbour. Vietnam had wars with many other countries as well (the US, France, Japan and Britain) but none of these wars were started by Vietnam. They were all invasion wars launched by wealthy and powerful countries to seize one of the most strategic military points in Asia’s Maps as mentioned by the above article. If China can swallow Vietnam, it is just a matter of time before she swallows nine other SE Asian countries. If America has Vietnam, China’s security will be threatened. However, Vietnam never has any intentions to join any side in this arms race. Vietnamese people just want to stay in their own land, we do not wish to extend it or invade or create hatred and tension with any other country. We do not wish to kill any innocent people. We just want to keep on living in this peaceful country forever. However, if any other country (including China) intends to hurt Vietnam’s sovereignty, Vietnamese people will never yield until we have our land and sea back, just as we had done for more than 3000 years.
M. Alaya
Yeah. You want it bilaterally huh?! Two poor and militarily weak developing countries to negotiate with the giant thug of China without a referee? You call that fair? Admit it, China is the new imperialist and its intent is no less evil than the US imperialism you claim to denounce. It is even more so.
China is already way out of the Spratlys intruding on Vietnamese and Philippine territory near their coasts.It is invading the whole Sea based on some frivolous claim with no legal basis whatsoever. You claim that China is just doing what Vietnam and the Philippines is doing. You are delusional. Vietnam and Philippines are certainly not looking for oil 500 miles from their coast. What you are justifying here is a clear case of INVASION and Chinese aggression.
Let us Southeast Asians remind you that this sea belong to Southeast Asian countries. Despite all our differences, we will not let you push Vietnam and the Philippines further. If we do so, we know that we in Malaysia, Brunei, and Indonesia are next. All of us own part of the sea you are unilaterally claiming to be yours. No outside of China one is buying your rhetoric of a peaceful rise. We are neither cowed nor ignorant like many in your country. Our democracy ensures that our government cannot shove bullshit down our throats like yours.
Remember this. We will trade with you but we will always distrust you. We would rather embrace Western intervention in our shores rather than submit to your evil intentions. And if you force your will, WE WILL FIGHT BACK. This sea is part of our home. In the name of God and our freedom we swear we will.
Nhung
@John Chan:
You are proving that Chinese government has been succeed in blinding its people or you are just plain ignorant of the situation to see the truth :) The area where Vietnamese ships were threatened and attacked were way deep in Vietnam’s waters, it was NEITHER China’s sovereignty NOR the disputed areas. What they are trying to do now is to make the world think that the area is disputed and the way Chinese systematically used civilian ships to harass this area is all a foul plan.
Phan Nhan
The Chinese claim that China and Vietnam has ‘agreed’ that all disputes must be solved bilaterally is a blatant lie. The Vietnamese FM spokeswoman categorically refuted this ‘bilateral’ hoax.
HTT
The incident happened absolutely in Vietnam’s own water and thus the area in which the incident happened is not a disputed area. Don’t trick others to believe in your “disputed area”, Mr. John Tran.
Henry Pham
John Chan. Only the Spratlys and the waters surrounding them are disputed areas. The Vietnam Exclusive Economic Zone or EEZ of 200 nautical miles from the coast according to UNCLOS,is not part of the dispute areas.
The Chinese must follow international laws concerning disputed areas in the South China Sea, especially the UNCLOS, and not some fantasy laws coming out of their crazy brains.
What the Chinese did was nothing but a violation of the Exclusive Economic Zone of another country, in this case, Vietnam,
Ngoa Long
The issue of south china sea is the international one not the bilateral between China and Vietnam (or the Philippines, Malaysia, etc.)any more!The pivotal sea lanes in this vast expand of Pacific are very important to the whole Pacific-Asia as well as the other countries in the world! China’s calculated and greedy claims over the whole south China Sea are against any current international law and norms, and can not be accepted by the international community! LEGALLY, China has had no ground for its claims on the the Spratlys, the Paracels and the south sea as well except its ‘vociferous unfounded ancient historical evidences’! Harrassing Vietnam’s ships (Binh Minh, etc.)in her maritime territory is just a sort of bullying for concessions of a regional thug!
The world should watch carefully all of China’s future behavior and intentions, especially all ASEAN members must unite and get ready themselves for the worst before it’s too late!
John Chan
My dear Vietnamese bloggers, that area is definitely a disputed area, because we are even disputing that area on this site. China said from 1956 to 1976(?), Vietnamese government repeatedly telling China that those disputed areas are China’s before she changed her mind later.
Let’s set emotion aside, if you were Vietnamese government, what are you going to do? China has hard evidence to support her claim, rather than shouting without support like Vietnamese bloggers did here; and China starts to have means to maintain her sovergnty over those areas. Maybe Vietnamese blogger should clam down and suggest some meaningful ways to help Vietnamese government out of this hot potato jam reasonably, instead of putting undue pressure on Vietnamese government to take unwise actions.
Vietnam has been extracting resources in disputed areas unilaterally for decades, do you think it is time for Vietnamese government to sit down and talk to resolve this unsustainable behaviour?
Negotiating with China only benefits Vietnam. The bustling prosperity in the north of Vietnam is an example, instead of death and destitute, now there are endless traffic jam for moving goods across the boarder. So my dear Vietnamese bloggers, are you sure you are acting for the good of Vietnamese in Vietnam, not merely inciting hostility across the Pacific in California on behalf of the world hegemony?
Henry Pham
John Chan, does the United Nations mean anything to you ? Does the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea means anything to you? China did ratify this convention and therefore must follow its international laws.
The China’s U-shape claims has no legal grounds. The Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone is defined by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS. How could it be a disputed area ?
The only disputed areas are the Spratlys and the waters surrounding them. And it’s not even certain that they belong to China. China is claiming the Spratlys on very dubious facts and now they also want the Exclusive Economic Zones of other countries of ASEAN like Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia.
Tell me John Chan, what China is going to do if the countries of ASEAN don’t let China violate their Exclusive Economic Zones ? Is China going to sent its navy to intimidate them ? Do you really think the world, the international community and other world powers like Russia and the USA are going to let the Chinese do whatever they wish in the South China Sea ?
As a Vietnamese, I think Vietnam would be much better off without doing any business with China. All the Chinese goods could easily be replaced by the products from other countries. Vietnam would benefit greatly from stopping buying Chinese goods which are by the way most of time of dubious quality.
John Chan
@Henry Pham, obviously you do not have Vietnamese interest at heart, you are ignoring the prosperity that are being generated when Vietnam and China cooperate and coexist peacefully.
It seems Vietnam is behaving like Japanese, claiming areas should not be claimed, that’s why they are running into troubles.
Vietnam cannot speak on behalf of ASEAN nations. Vietnam is only a member of ASEAN, who has a lot of enemies in ASEAN. ASEAN must regret by now they took on Vietnam, which gives ASEAN no ending headache and troubles.
It is common sense in law and order; trespassers and squatters can either leave by themselves peacefully or be evicted by sheriff. People will be handcuffed if they try to obstruct the sheriff from carrying out law and order.
History proved that Vietnamese suffered terribly in the hands of French, the Japanese and the American, so what you said “Vietnam would be much better off without doing any business with China” is wrong and false. Your resentment about the Chinese goods in Vietnam proves you are prejudice against China without rationale.
In case you don’t know, China is one of the five permanent members of UNSC.
BB
The current 13-BILLION TRADE DEFICIT with China is a price that Vietnam (and other ASEAN members) had to pay for doing business with China! That’s a ‘very good deal’, right? That ugly trick of dumping cheap chinese goods in other countries’ markets( particularly, ASEAN members’ ones) to kill their domestic, indigenous manufacturing industry is a painful reality that all other countries in the world have already known and experienced !
As a permanent member of UNSC, China should behave much more responsibly in respecting other members’ sovereignty and territory as well as resolving peacefully all arising conflicts (with other members) instead of threatening and bullying them for China’s own interests! Harassing Vietnam’s ships right in her 200- nautical-mile EEZ is not the proper behavior or conduct of a UNSC permanent member!And there’s nothing for China to be proud of this!!
Anh Tuan
@ John Chan: Why can’t you talk about the UNCLOS? Don’t tell me the Chinese have been on the South China Sea for a thousand years and that’s why you claim all the South China Sea. If that made the case, the British may claim all the five oceans because they have been to all of them. Why don’t you go to Hanoi and claim that Hanoi is your territory because you find a mountain of your ancestors’ remains over there.
M. Alaya
Yeah. As expected. Your Chinese approach is to bully your way out of an otherwise argument. You are big, strong, and a member of the UN Security Council. We don’t give a sh&t. Let me tell you this – outside of China, no one trusts China.
You may be on top now but you won’t always be. With the rate of inflation, rising cost of labor, and shrinking demographics your growth will stop in the next 10-15 years. Look around you, many companies are starting to close and moving here in Southeast Asia.
Our governments may say nice things to you but don’t count on it too much. Your government is threatening Southeast Asian homeland and waters. Don’t expect us to capitulate anytime soon. We may have our own differences but we would rather share and divide this sea amongst ourselves than give you a foothold in our territories. The Malay race is a race of warriors, always remember that. There is nothing we won’t give to defend our homes.
Alex Nguyen
I can seriously sense the cunningness in your voice when you try to be calm and reasonable and all to explain things to those “brainless, impulsive and ignorant Vietnamese bloggers” who knows nothing about history. I know it’s a waste of time to talk to people like you but may be my love for Vietnam is too big so I cannot shut my mouth up.
1. You said that we did not have any proof to claim that sea area while China has all the evidence. Ok, so where is the evidence? Which documents say these sea territories belong to China? When did Vietnam say they belong to China and when did they change their mind? (year, date, month) Were these documents written by Chinese Scholars or Vietnamese Scholars or an unbiased International Scholars? You keep saying Vietnamese arguments are groundless and say that China has all the evidence but you yourself have not provided any reliable source of information. I don’t know how high is your study degree, but you must know a simple rule in argument that if you poke a hole in others’ argument, you have to provide cold-hard fact or blatant proof for your reasonings. Otherwise, you arguments are just as groundless. And again, (as Henry Pham already mentioned) even UN clearly stated that that sea area belong to Vietnam. But if you refuse to hear that, we don’t think that we should waste time talking to you anymore.
2. Again, where is your evidence that Vietnam created so many troubles for other Asean countries? Which incidents lead you to think that Vietnam has so many enemies in the ASEAN (date,time, publications? Chinese newspapers with fabricated stories about Vietnam aren’t counted as a source.
3. “It is common sense in law and order; trespassers and squatters can either leave by themselves peacefully or be evicted by sheriff. People will be handcuffed if they try to obstruct the sheriff from carrying out law and order.”
I totally agree with you at this point since China’s ships need to be punished when they go into the Vietnam’s sea territory without permission from our country.
4. “that area is definitely a disputed area, because we are even disputing that area on this site.”
Seriously, the more you say, the easier it shows that you are just an arrogant and ignorant person. What we are doing in this site is arguing with each other, not disputing. We do not have any legal rights to decide the unfolding or the outcome of the event. The decisions will finally rest on UN, Chinese governments and Vietnamese governments. Dispute has much more serious meaning in legal term.
5. “History proved that Vietnamese suffered terribly in the hands of French, the Japanese and the American, so what you said “Vietnam would be much better off without doing any business with China” is wrong and false.”
You are wrong and false. For 1000 years of being Chinese colony (from the 1st – 10th century), Vietnam suffered unimaginably under Chinese dynasties. Even in modern times, China has done so many bad things to Vietnam.
a. Chinese merchants bought all the cats with high prices so Vietnamese farmers sold all our cats to China and the following years, we suffered from rat pandemic, destroying our crop and we had to buy cats back from China with high price.
b. China bought toes from water buffalos with high prices so Vietnamese farmers kill their main farming tools to sell toes to China and the following years, Vietnam had to buy water buffaloes and farming machine from China.
c. China bought the roots of liquorice trees (a precious herb tree in Vietnam), the corn young silks not the corncobs, the yellow rough tea leaves with extremely high prices so that the poor and naïve Vietnamese farmers destroyed their own tea, corn, liquorice fields to supply for them and the Vietnamese factories did not have the supply chain anymore. And you can guess, the following years we had to buy all the tea, corn and liquorice from China.
d. China did help us to build several water systems. They helped us out by building 120 water dams along the China – Vietnam border river to create whirlpools to erode the Vietnamese land and bring it to China’s side.
e. China did sell golden-crown snails for Vietnamese people so they destroy our paddy rice field. Every Vietnamese people remember the golden-crown snail incident because it is still a problem until today.
f. Vietnam is one of the main consumers of Chinese poisonous food and groceries.
Well yes, I am not against using Chinese products as long as it has good qualities and reasonable prices. I just always remember what China had done to my countries. If China does not intend to invade Vietnam, we Vietnamese people can easily relinquish the dark past and live peacefully with Chinese people (good Chinese people). But if China keeps trying to prove that she is the most powerful country in the world and is so willing to sacrifice the lives of innocent people of foreign countries in her power game, Vietnamese people will never back down.
Besides, John Chan, look further, China has a long history of invading other countries, and creates conflicts with whichever countries sharing the same borders with her. China has problems with Tibet, Mongolia, Vietnam, Phillipine, Russia, Japan, everyone. It is easy to tell from an unbiased point of view, who is the bully here.
One last thing, we -Vietnamese people all know that China is one of the UN permanent members, it’s a common knowledge for god’s sake. You don’t need to educate us – “ignorant Vietnamese people” about that. But it doesn’t say anything. I know what you mean is that China knows about UN’s laws and regulations. But your point is not convincing. First, being a permanent member of UN only proves that China is very powerful, it doesn’t mean that China will 100% follow UN’s rules and regulations but rather using UN’s power to its advantage. The US did that as well and more than often, USA disregards UN’s laws in many of its military campaigns especially when attacking Middle-East countries. There’s no warranty that China will not do the same things. History proved that a lot of the alliance is just a camouflage of darker scheme. China or USA or Russia will never join UN if there is not any interest for them. The alliance’s rules and regulations are just temporary and the links can be broken anytime if the conflicts of interest culminate. I seriously do not see being a permanent member of UN will stop China from doing things that are against UN’s rules once China wants to prove that she’s the dominant one.
Henry Pham
@John Chan, obviously you do not have Chinese interest at heart, you are ignoring the prosperity that are being generated when Vietnam and China cooperate and coexist peacefully. And you didn’t answer to my question of how is the Exclusive Economic Zone or EEZ of Vietnam defined by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS is a disputes area.
It seems China is behaving like a rogue nation, claiming areas that should not be claimed, that’s why they are running into troubles.
China cannot speak on behalf of ASEAN nations. China is not a member of ASEAN, and has a lot of enemies in ASEAN. ASEAN must regret by now they have a Free Trade Area or FTA with China, which gives ASEAN no ending headache and troubles.
It is common sense in law and order; Chinese trespassers and squatters can either leave by themselves peacefully or be evicted by the American sheriff. Chinese people will be handcuffed if they try to obstruct the American sheriff from carrying out law and order in the South China Sea.
History proved that Vietnamese suffered terribly in the hands of the Chinese, more so than at the hands of the French, the Japanese and the American, so saying “Vietnam would be much better off without doing any business with China” is right and makes sense. Vietnamese people buy the Chinese goods only because they are cheap. With the rise of the Yuan and the inflation in China, Chinese goods won’t be cheap any more and there will be no more reasons for the Vietnamese to buy Chinese goods.
In case you don’t know, China is not originally one of the five permanent members of UNSC after the World War II. The seat was occupied by the Republic of China or Taiwan and was given to the PRC only later.
John Chan
@Henry Pham, it seems you are not here to dialog, you should learn from Anne on how to present case for Vietnam. If you represent Vietnam in UN, Vietnam will definitely lose the case. You are no good to Vietnam.
Until the border is settled, international laws cannot apply to the disputed areas. UN has no mandate to settle borders for any nation, otherwise Vietnam will be part of France again, and that decision will be enforced by NATO with bombing and killing like in Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia, etc.
Mr. Pham, if you cannot argue based on truth, you lost creditability, and also remember nobody can monopolize truth. The West arrogantly believes they can monopolize truth, that’s why we have so much trouble in the world, because the West refused to act responsibly in according to the truth.
Henry Pham
@John Chan, it seems you are not here to dialog, you should learn from other posters on how to present case for China. If you represent China in UN, China will definitely lose the case. You are no good to China.
The border of the Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone is settled, international laws of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS apply to it unlike the disputed areas. UN has mandate to settle borders for nations of the world, otherwise China will be part of Japan again, and that decision will be enforced by Japan/USA with bombing and killing like in Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia, etc.
Mr. Chan, if you cannot argue based on truth, you lost creditability, and also remember nobody can monopolize truth. The Chinese arrogantly believe they can monopolize truth, that’s why we have so much trouble in the South China Sea, because China refused to act responsibly in according to the truth.
Dzung Thuy Nguyen
I can seriously sense the cunningness in your voice when you try to be calm and reasonable and all to explain things to those “brainless, impulsive and ignorant Vietnamese bloggers” who knows nothing about history. I know it’s a waste of time to talk to people like you but may be my love for Vietnam is too big so I cannot shut my mouth up.
1. You said that we did not have any proof to claim that sea area while China has all the evidence. Ok, so where is the evidence? Which documents say these sea territories belong to China? When did Vietnam say they belong to China and when did they change their mind? (year, date, month) Were these documents written by Chinese Scholars or Vietnamese Scholars or an unbiased International Scholars? You keep saying Vietnamese arguments are groundless and say that China has all the evidence but you yourself have not provided any reliable source of information. I don’t know how high is your study degree, but you must know a simple rule in argument: if you poke a hole in others’ argument, you have to provide cold-hard fact or blatant proof for your reasoning. Otherwise, you arguments are just as groundless. And again, (as Henry Pham already mentioned) even UN clearly stated that that sea area belong to Vietnam. But if you refuse to hear that, we don’t think that we should waste time talking to you anymore.
2. Again, where is your evidence that Vietnam created so many troubles for other Asean countries? Which incidents lead you to think that Vietnam has so many enemies in the ASEAN (date,time, publications? Chinese newspapers with fabricated stories about Vietnam aren’t counted as a source.
3. “It is common sense in law and order; trespassers and squatters can either leave by themselves peacefully or be evicted by sheriff. People will be handcuffed if they try to obstruct the sheriff from carrying out law and order.”
I totally agree with you at this point since China’s ships need to be punished when they go into the Vietnam’s sea territory without permission from our country.
4. “that area is definitely a disputed area, because we are even disputing that area on this site.”
Seriously, what we are doing in this site is arguing with each other, not disputing. We do not have any legal rights to decide the unfolding or the outcome of the event. The decisions will finally rest on UN, Chinese governments and Vietnamese governments. Dispute has much more serious meaning in legal term.
5. “History proved that Vietnamese suffered terribly in the hands of French, the Japanese and the American, so what you said “Vietnam would be much better off without doing any business with China” is wrong and false.”
You are wrong and false. For 1000 years of being Chinese colony (from the 1st – 10th century), Vietnam suffered unimaginably under Chinese dynasties. Even in modern times, China has done so many bad things to Vietnam.
a. Chinese merchants bought all the cats with high prices so Vietnamese farmers sold all our cats to China and the following years, we suffered from rat pandemic, destroying our crop and we had to buy cats back from China with high price.
b. China bought toes from water buffalos with high prices so Vietnamese farmers kill their main farming tools to sell toes to China and the following years, Vietnam had to buy water buffaloes and farming machine from China.
c. China bought the roots of liquorice trees (a precious herb tree in Vietnam), the corn young silks not the corncobs, the yellow rough tea leaves with extremely high prices so that the poor and naïve Vietnamese farmers destroyed their own tea, corn, liquorice fields to supply for them and the Vietnamese factories did not have the supply chain anymore. And you can guess, the following years we had to buy all the tea, corn and liquorice from China.
d. China did help us to build several water systems. They helped us out by building 120 water dams along the China – Vietnam border river to create whirlpools to erode the Vietnamese land and bring it to China’s side.
e. China did sell golden-crown snails for Vietnamese people so they destroy our paddy rice fields. Every Vietnamese people remember the golden-crown snail incident because it is still a problem until today.
f. Vietnam is one of the main consumers of Chinese poisonous food and groceries.
Well yes, I am not against using Chinese products as long as they have good qualities and reasonable prices. I just always remember what China had done to my countries. If China does not intend to invade Vietnam, we Vietnamese people can easily relinquish the dark past and live peacefully with Chinese people (good Chinese people). But if China keeps trying to prove that she is the most powerful country in the world and is so willing to sacrifice the lives of innocent people of foreign countries in her power game, Vietnamese people will never back down.
Besides, John Chan, look further, China has a long history of invading other countries, and creates conflicts with whichever countries sharing the same borders with her. China has problems with Tibet, Mongolia, Vietnam, Phillipine, Russia, Japan, everyone. It is easy to tell from an unbiased point of view, who is the bully here.
One last thing, we -Vietnamese people all know that China is one of the UN permanent members, it’s a common knowledge for god’s sake. You don’t need to educate us – “ignorant Vietnamese people” about that. But it doesn’t say anything. I know what you mean is that China knows about UN’s laws and regulations. But your point is not convincing. First, being a permanent member of UN only proves that China is very powerful, it doesn’t mean that China will 100% follow UN’s rules and regulations but rather using UN’s power to its advantage. The US did that as well and more than often, USA disregards UN’s laws in many of its military campaigns especially when attacking Middle-East countries. There’s no warranty that China will not do the same things. History proved that a lot of the alliance is just a camouflage of darker scheme. China or USA or Russia will never join UN if there is not any interest for them. The alliance’s rules and regulations are just temporary and the links can be broken anytime if the conflicts of interest culminate. I seriously do not see being a permanent member of UN will stop China from doing things that are against UN’s rules once China wants to prove that she’s the dominant one.
John Chan
SingTao daily reported, on Jun 9, Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung declared the whole South China Sea (the U-shape) is Vietnam’s territory; Vietnam will defend the whole South China Sea at any cost. China only said South China Sea was her core interest, and yet Vietnam claims the whole U-shape a Vietnam’s territory. We must admire Vietnamese guts, Vietnam is more ambitious than anybody in Asia; I wonder what Philippines will do next, or in matter of fact what all other members of ASEAN will do next. Maybe the Vietnamese bloggers can enlighten other bloggers about their opinion on Vietnam Prime Minster’s announcement.
M. Alaya, it seems Malaysia got another tough customer to deal with now. Vietnamese do not talk, they simply shoot and march. Malaysia better ask Cambodia for advice on how to fight the Vietnamese who are famous for ruthless and brutality, because this time no more white people going to fight the war for you. Don’t count on the Australians who will have difficulty to send help like in the 1950s. Alaya stops claiming your fake moral high ground, I just wonder why UN did not sanction Malaysia’s racist national policy.
M. Alaya
And your source is a Chinese newspaper??? Snicker. Snicker. Snicker. The only people who are mindless enough to buy those sources are people like you. You are eating your own propaganda, hook, line and sinker.
Now it is Vietnam is trying to own the whole sea.. How pathetic of you trying to turn ASEAN versus Vietnam. We are capable of diplomacy with each other. And none of us, I’m pretty sure have any ambition of occupying each others legally recognized territory. Your country and you paid CCP propagandists on the other hand are only capable of bullying, misinformation, and intimidation of your own people and the rest of the world. That’s what you’re good at.
And then you’ll call us racist. Geez! Look at the mirror and see who is more racist. Who oppresses more people. Who stifles more freedom of speech. Who keeps more unwilling peoples subjugated. Do you hear that sound? Those are the Tibetans. Uyghurs. Mongols. the Falun Gong. the Christians. the Chinese students, activists, and artists you jailed and massacred for speaking their minds. The hundreds of thousands who died in your cultural revolution and still languishing in jails. Can’t hear their painful cries? That’s a bad sign of inhumanity.
Just enjoy the platitudes from our Prime Minister and the heads of state. He doesn’t mean it – after all, the trade balance is still in our favor. But remember this. We can and we will defend ourselves against you.
As for the white people, why don’t you try actually firing shots…Try attacking Philippine troops. Or ours. Or Vietnam. Then you’ll find out how wrong you are and how many friends your country really have in this world…
Anne
“ASEAN must regret by now they took on Vietnam, which gives ASEAN no ending headache and troubles.” – Are you trying to offend Vietnam, Mr. John Chan? My dear Chinese blogger (Am I right?), maybe you should calm down and set your personal emotion aside :)
We do know that China is one of the five permanent members of UNSC. Thanks for your “gentle” reminder. Yes, China is a big country, we do know. And Vietnam is just a small country that suffered tremendously from repeating attempts of invasions and annexations from Chinese. Do you think such a big country like China will let such a small country like Vietnam extract resources in disputed areas unilaterally for decades? Do you think small Vietnam dares to do that to create a good reason for big & powerful China to attack her? No, Mr. John Chan. Please set your personal emotion aside, think logically and tell people reasonable things. Small countries like Vietnam can only act under international law, and this is one of the way to protect themselves.
Thanks for your enthusiasm and your time to reply everyone here. And appreciate it but maybe you need to take a rest to calm down, my dear Chinese blogger.
John Chan
@Anne, ASEAN is not a military alliance, so please do not abuse the forum as a weapon for Vietnam’s bellicose behaviour. ASEAN is a forum to promote peace and prosperity for the ASEAN nations. As a latecomer of the ASEAN, Vietnam should sit, listen and learn from the original members on how to conduct themselves internationally.
Before ASEAN admitted Vietnam, ASEAN never has quarrel with China, Japan, Korea, etc. Since Vietnam is member of ASEAN, ASEAN has no ending troubles with China, and among the ASEAN members too.
Since you know the disadvantage of small nation, why do you insist Vietnam to take bellicose approach on every international dispute? You know Vietnam will suffer heavily in violent confrontation, why can you suggest Vietnam to outsmart China on the negotiation table? Would it make more sense and cost effective?
M. Alaya
You are just stoking the fire here Mr. Chan. Do you really think you are winning anyone on your side here?? You are a poor representative of the Chinese government. If any, your distortion of history and your arrogance only serves to further convince us that your governments intent is ill-willed and malicious. You are practically telling everyone here, from at least 5 nations, that we are all st%p&d – just like China is doing with its own people and the rest of the world.
You are out of touch with reality. The Spratlys and the North ASEAN sea belongs to Southeast Asians. Malays have been sailing its waters since before there was even a China. Don’t delude yourself. We Southeast Asians would rather deal with Vietnam than the likes of your arrogant lot. Your country is a threat to world peace. You are not welcome in our waters.
wilson
Two sides of Vietnam were at war from 1955 – 1975 and the islands occupied by the South. Anything the North said about area not belonged to them was not legitimate.
Michael Tran
“China has hard evidence to support her claim” – John Chan.
Oh my dear John Chan, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. The history of China is a serie of civil wars and the name “China” just barely made to the world map. So to claim that China has hard evidence is absurd. by whom may I ask? Obviously not those from the civil wars ’cause they were busy fighting among yourselves for thoudsand of years, remember?
Anh Tuan
@ John Chan: Vietnam has never said the South China Sea is the issue between Vietnam and China only. Don’t tell me to quote Chinese newspapers; they will describe an elephant as pillar.
The author is not asking for any third party to “intervene”. He’s asking for cooperation between claimants.
As the author argued, the location of the incident is within Vietnam’s EEZ, as defined by the UNCLOS. The Chinese propaganda apparatus cannot justify China’s U shaped claims to the international community, simply because they are ridiculous.
And once they cannot justify their claims, their tactic is to blame all others for what they call Cold War mindset, interventionism, or whatever word they can use.
Observer
@ John Chan – once again, you show your vast ignorant for the whole world to see.
History showed that Vietnam suffered tremendously from repeating attempts of invasions and annexations from the barbaric hordes Chinese for the last several thousands years. Vietnam and her people fought and fought and still fighting for their sovereign.
China is the one with a long and proven history of trespassing, squatting, invasion, and annexation of smaller countries such as Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, and still attempting to invade Vietnam again.
John Chan, you are just a pathetic mouthpiece of the CCP (China Communist Party) and not a very smart or good one at that task.
John Chan
@Observer, can you show a proper manner to argue on this site on behalf of Indian for once? Why can’t you simply present argument with reason and logic like the Chinese bloggers do? Why do you have to use bad language every time you show up?
Observer, hiding behind a non-descriptive screen name and dishing out insulting language are cowardice. No matter how bad you smear Chinese bloggers, they are better than you, at least they dare to stand up in open to argue against the CIA proxies who can only stab people’s back in the shadow.
Bloggers are here to express different opinions due to their different backgrounds and life experience. If you don’t like their opinions, you can present yours with reasons and logic to sway other readers’. If you cannot do it, you can leave this site and never return, you will not be missed. This is internet, we are practising freedom of speech, instead of imposing opinion on someone else by bombing and killing like the West and its lackeys.
M. Alaya
Do you think you are arguing properly on behalf of China??? You call your arhuments reasonable and logical? Get real!!! You can’t even present a piece of undsitroted fact. You just antagonized everyone, just like your government. We have different opinions and we are exercising our freedom of speech. Is a Chinese government mouthpiece telling us how democracies should behave??? Come on. We are all democracies, unlike your beloved authoritarian repressive government. No one else in this blog is imposing their beliefs on everyone else like you do. READ THIS: Your sense of history is twisted. We Southeast Asians don’t trust you. We don’t agree with you. And you are certainly not welcome in our waters.Remember that!
John chan brother
John Chan, your brain has been washed. Talking to you just like talking to my knee.
Alex Nguyen
@ John Chan
I’m really looking forward to hearing your explanation about the China’s violation on Vietnam Exclusive Economic Zone or EEZ of 200 nautical miles from the coast according to UNCLOS. It is obvious that legally, Vietnam has the support from the UN since the area where the incident occurred was agreed to belong to Vietnam by the UN (of which China and Vietnam are members).
So tell me, has China decided to follow the rule only when it is convenient for her? Or simply China is so arrogant that she believe the rule of the UN is not applicable for her.
Ching Ching Pong Hu
This is only we start… china is great and will end when it reach US west coast.
Beware america here come china.
Phan Nhan
The incidents of Binh Minh happened in an area of which China has absolutely no claim under both of its current arguments:
- The 9-dashed line is simply trash under international law, even before UNCLOS in 1982. Incoherent, altered many times, without coordinates, this line was resurrected in 2009 from a 1947 God-know-what text left by the Kuomintang to exert Chinese claim. This should disqualify itself before any international tribunal. Just consult any internationally renown jurist about that. The claim for ‘historical evidence’ is stupid. Those texts the Chinese referred to did not even mention Sisha or Nansha. In fact, the official Chinese atlas under the Qing imperial government even declared the southernmost point of Chinese territory was in Hainan.
- The Paracels and Spratlys, disputed by both Vietnam and China, do no qualify for extensive EEZs and continental shelf under UNCLOS which allow only land features to have those.
The incident took place outside of both Paracels and Spratlys’ ạdjacent waters. What did the Chinese base their claim on ? 9 dash line ?
When asked by a Chinese reporter about Chinese claims on Vietnamese territory based on historical evidence such as pottery, artifacts, human bones of Chinese origin, Nguyen Co Thach, former Vietnamese FM responded: “Underneath Hanoi itself is full of Chinese bones, of those killed during their wars against Vietnam. That doesn’t make Hanoi Chinese !”
BB
The current 13-BILLION TRADE DEFICIT with China is a price that Vietnam (and perhaps other ASEAN members, too) had to pay for doing business with China! That’s hardly a ‘good deal’, right? The ugly trick of dumping cheap chinese goods in other countries markets, particularly, ASEAN’s ones to kill their domestic, indigenous manufacturing industry is a painful reality that all other countries in the world have already known and experienced (even the US& EU)!
As a permanent member of UNSC, China should behave much more responsibly in respecting and honoring other members’ sovereignty and territory as well as resolving peacefully all arising conflicts (with other members) instead of threatening and bullying them for China’s own interests! Harassing Vietnam’s ships right in her 200- nautical-mile EEZ is not the proper behavior or conduct of a ‘UNSC permanent member’! Then, there’s nothing for China to be proud of!! BTW there’s no need at all for mentioning other people’s race! That kind of racism should not be accepted in this free forum for any reasons!
John Chan
Here is a reposting a comment appeared on http://the-diplomat.com/new-leaders-forum/2011/06/08/us-reaffirms-asia-role/
China Lee June 10, 2011 at 9:26 am
Vietnamese and Filipinos should stop encroaching on thousand-year-old Chinese territory.
———-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracel_Islands
“The coast belonged to the Kingdom of Cauchi China. Map of Europe, Africa and … There are some Chinese cultural relics in the Paracel islands dating from …”
“China
618~1279
*There are some Chinese cultural relics in the Paracel islands dating from the Tang and Song dynasty eras[12][note 1], and there is some evidence of Chinese habitation on the islands in these periods.[13].”
John Chan
Oh well, it took me awhile to read all those emotion charged and one sided protestations. It seems nobody wants to face the reality and debate a course of action to resolve the difficult issues. It seems I do not have much luck with Vietnamese bloggers, I hope the Chinese government has better luck with the Vietnamese government.
If the Vietnamese government does not meet the expectation of the Vietnamese bloggers’ demands, the Vietnamese bloggers should overthrow that gutless government. China can supply WWII rifles to support Vietnamese bloggers’ armed struggle to overthrow that government.
Alex Nguyen
Dear M.Alaya, Anne, Henri Pham, Anh Tuan, Ngoa Long and many other amazing writers here:
We can easily tell that we are wasting our time talking to an arrogant and ignorant person who doesn’t have enough knowledge and reasoning to deny our arguments. We attack the loopholes in his arguments and he rarely has enough documents or rationales to defend himself, so he decided to make up stories about ASEAN and VietNam hating each other or after a while coming back to the original points he made about VietNam is the one that dares to provoke China, testing China’s patience, while China is totally innocent (even when they invaded Tibet, have conlficts with almost all other neighbour countries). He also tries his best to isolate Vietnam from the rest of the world and from ASEAN to create divisiveness between Vietnam and other countries. He tries to ignore the fact that China did the exact same thing to Phillipines a few months ago. He Did not listen to anyone here and when he ran out of fabricated stories, he again pretends to be almighty: “Oh, great, you guys should worry more about your country than staying here and arguing with me, because you know what, no matter what happens, China will win because we are huge, we are powerful, we are awesome, and you guys – smaller, tinier countries should worry about pleasing us or surrendering to our great great China, and good luck”.
He also tries to throw meaningless insults and wicked comments at us to provoke our anger so that he can smirk to himself that we are brainless and he always has the upper hand.
Yeah, I can see where China is heading towards with people like John Chan. So My friends, we should just abandon these arguments and unite toghether to let this horrible person know that we are serious about protecting our sea territoies and we are not afraid of China, we are not angry with John Chan or any other bad Chinese people’s insults and vicious verbal attack. We are angry because our motherlands are hurt. We will turn that patriotic anger into action to protect our motherlands. China will not be arrogant for too long. History proves that gigiantic country like China has been swallowed by much smaller countries such as Mongolia, Japan,and 8 countries at the end of 19th century. With their zero level of creativity and 100% ignorance, China will soon suffer from their own problems and get weak. History has the strange habit of repeating itself again and again. Vietnam and other SE Asia countries also has a long history of fighting against China (and other much more powerful countries) and successfully defending our sovereignty, we will be able to do it again.
the southeastasian
That is a good idea. Vietnam shold be more democratic in peaceful manner. That is exactly the situation which the current Chinese goverment never want. The ordinary Chinese would never just stay and see what happens in Vietnam. They want the same things. With luck we have a responsible goverment and fewer stereotype like John Chang there. Otherwise the current Chinese goverment has enough serious problems to pacify this vast multiethnic country. So they have the more important thing (to keep the Integrity of the PRC) to do than bulling and invading their smaller neighboring countries. Vietnam will always stay Vietnam, whichever political system it has. It is different for the PRC. Maybe we have newer more peace-loving neighbors: Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Republic of Quangxi Zhuang, The People’s Republic of Han-China…
What do you think about it, John Chang?
China Lee
Vietnamese and Filipinos should stop encroaching on thousand-year-old Chinese territory.
———-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracel_Islands
“The coast belonged to the Kingdom of Cauchi China. Map of Europe, Africa and … There are some Chinese cultural relics in the Paracel islands dating from …”
“China
618~1279
* There are some Chinese cultural relics in the Paracel islands dating from the Tang and Song dynasty eras[12][note 1], and there is some evidence of Chinese habitation on the islands in these periods.[13].”
the southeastasian
“Underneath Hanoi itself is full of Chinese bones, of those killed during their wars against Vietnam. Hanoi belongs to China!”
BP
Better save it for the Tibetans, the Uygurs and the Inner Mongolians ! You are just a mouthpiece of the CCP’s propaganda machine! You broke into other people’s house then cry foul and loudly request for negotiation and resolution in favor of yourself!! That clever trick has been notoriously ugly and dishonest !! You think the International Community still believe whatever you’ve said, China?!
M. Alaya
@John Chan, Yeah. Don’t be surprised. This is the reaction that you caused here. This is the reaction that you sparked by claiming the sea without any legal or acceptable basis. This is what you get when you think you are talking peace and logic, but you are talking on both sides of your mouth. Everyone else thinks that you and your government are just being arrogant.
Your idea of facing the reality is Southeast Asians and the rest of the world just accepting China’s intrusions into other country’s legally defined territorial waters and making of claims without ANY legal basis whatsoever. Your idea of a logical argument is what? the rest of us just agreeing with your ill-formulated positions? (The only thing you said that was factual was that China is a member of the UNSC and you obviously said that to imply that nothing will happen even if all these ASEAN countries protest to the UN.)
Your foreign minister had already let the cat out of the box when he made a bold announcement that “China is big, all other countries are small” last year. No amount of statements of peaceful reassurances and intent will ever change that, especially now that you are firing at fishermen and harassing boats in the sea.
Your government’s attempt to claim an entire sea that our forefathers have plied long before China even ventured into the waters is a sign of your arrogance. Your accusation that we here are CIA proxies or Western just shows you how dense you and your government are in world affairs. It seems to be an instinctive reaction on your part, everyone who doesn’t agree with China is a CIA or Western whatever. They may do business with your country but believe me, outside of China, no one trusts the Chinese government.
Don’t delude yourself that your country will always be on top. Your government has picked fights with practically everyone else in Asia. Don’t expect many friends to come to your side anytime soon.
And by the way, I am not a Vietnamese blogger. I am Malay. Disdain for your government goes beyond Vietnam.
Observer
@ John Chan and Chinese bloggers – argument with reason and logic? Are you drunk or on drugs or both? Since when you and your comrades show us the readers with reason and logic from your many posts? Shall I show the Diplomat readers some of you guys’ posts and humiliate you guys even more? Better yet, if I bring back some of your posts that were full of ignorant statements, would you leave and ask your CCP masters to give us someone who is a bit better for our amusement?
In my many posts, I provided the readers with many neutral and well know sources such as Wiki and this very own website, the Diplomat but you and your comrades could not do the same except some biased sources from China. Is that how they teach you guys how to debate in China?
You guys are better than us? Yes, you Chinese bloggers are very much better at lying, telling tall tales, and pathetic lacking knowledge, especially of history.
Internet is for freedom of speech, not freedom of lying and telling propaganda for the CCP. Who is your boss? I want to know so I can tell him or her to cut your pay from 50 cents to 5 cents because that is the fair value of your posts.
BTW, I am not Indian or East Indian as your not too bright comrade Frank kept saying about me when he could not reply to my post with fact and logic. Try again and you need to do a better job than that, comrade.
John Chan
North America edition of SingTao daily reported, on Jun 9, Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung declared the whole South China Sea (the U-shape) is Vietnam’s territory; Vietnam will defend the whole South China Sea at any cost. China only said South China Sea was her core interest, and yet Vietnam claims the whole U-shape a Vietnam’s territory. We must admire Vietnamese guts, Vietnam is more ambitious than anybody in Asia; I wonder what Philippines will do next, or in matter of fact what all other members of ASEAN will do next. Maybe the Vietnamese bloggers can enlighten other bloggers about their opinion on Vietnam Prime Minster’s announcement.
M. Alaya, it seems Malaysia got another tough customer to deal with now. Vietnamese do not talk, they simply shoot and march. Malaysia better ask Cambodia for advice on how to fight the Vietnamese who are famous for ruthless and brutality, because this time no more white people going to fight the war for you. Don’t count on the Australians who will have difficulty to send help like in the 1950s. Alaya stops claiming your fake moral high ground, I just wonder why UN did not sanction Malaysia’s racist national policy.
Anh Tuan
@ John Chan: “North America edition of SingTao daily reported, on Jun 9, Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung declared the whole South China Sea (the U-shape) is Vietnam’s territory…”
SingTao Daily or you, or both, are trying to distort PM Dung’s words. I must tell you that the Vietnamese are not that greedy and stupid. You think that ASEAN and other countries will buy your statements? It seems that you are living in another world.
Remember that this is the Diplomat, not a Chinese forum where you can throw anything on. You are in a forum where all statements can be double checked. It takes less than a minute for readers to check what the Vietnamese PM has said. If you have any problem with going Google, my kindergarten – grade son can give you a lecture for free.
John Chan
@Observer, Chinese bloggers are presenting point of views you are incapable to envisage, it is a shock to you who know nothing but cold war. Peace, friendship, and prosperity are stranger to you; all those goodies for the humanity threaten the shadowy proxy of the CIA and its lackeys, that’s why they are desperately smearing Chinese bloggers with unidentifiable screen name.
Because the anti-China clique is unable to see thing beyond their scope, so they label all reasons and presentation not within their vocabulary as CCP propaganda. Observer you are the ignorant fooled by the cold war warmongers, whatever you say will not humiliate Chinese bloggers, because you are one that Chinese bloggers needs to dialog with, and to convince that the cold war and China Threat the neocon promoting is hideous, and a danger to the mankind. Chinese bloggers are fighting against that evil force to bring peace and prosperity to the world.
BTW, Chinese is the authority of properly documented history, the West only has stories, legends, and fictions as their history most of time. Chinese has been documenting history thousands of years, it is a skill the westerners only have picked up in last couple hundred years.
The West want to whitewash their ugly colonial past, so they use creative revisionist writing to fabricate their history, then insist that only the writing in the West is truth, and everything in China is propaganda. Now you know who “are very much better at lying, telling tall tales, and pathetic lacking knowledge, especially of history.”
M. Alaya
Yes John Chan. In your world view, China and the CCP has the monopoly of kindness, peace, truth, and benevolent intent. The West are evil colonialists, everyone else are CIA proxies, small developing ASEAN countries are aggressors. Doesn’t it bother you that in these forums you that the only people that share your views are government paid Han Chinese hacks pseudo-bloggers like you?
How much are you paid per post?
John Chan
@M. Alaya, don’t you think it is obvious, I present my point of view to expose the lies told about China, clear smear painted on China and correct distort facts about China. This forum has been conducting itself admirably; it allows all sides to present their views, even skewed view like yours.
If you have any reasonable argument to present, then present it, let other readers to judge, you don’t need to label and smear Chinese bloggers who happen to have different views on the world events from yours.
Usually Indian bloggers call names, such as 50 cents bloggers, when they lost argument, I didn’t realize Malays are the same as the Indians. I am a Chinese blogger defending the good name of China and Chinese, it is a duty of every Chinese regardless their nationality.
M. Alaya
Oh, we are not. I haven’t lost the argument yet. Sorry to offend your Chinese sensibilities. I just assumed you were one of those paid by the CCP to fan and reinforce their propaganda. Oh sorry again, I forgot that as far as the Chinese government is concerned they don’t exist.
Now that you brought it up, you are doing a good job of defending the good name of China and Chinese. Congratulations. You appeared calm, rational, logical, collected, and sincere. Not arrogant. Not arrogant at all. You didn’t offend people from at least five different countries. Just like your government did not offend and threaten practically all of its neighbors.
You are doing such a good job giving China a good name so keep up the good work. :)
John Chan
Vietnamese and Filipinos should stop encroaching on thousand-year-old Chinese territory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracel_Islands
M. Alaya
You are deluded sir and even your understanding of history is not based on facts. Your history is way way detached from reality. Your propagandists write some fictional account and then you quote it. That’s eating your own sh|t.
“As for [China's] claims to the South China Sea and its islands based on visits by fishermen, they ignore the fact that commerce in that sea, and into and across the Indian Ocean was run by Malay vessels and crews hundreds of years before Chinese mariners and merchants ventured far from their coast. Chinese Buddhist pilgrims to Sri Lanka went on Malay boats via Java or Sumatra.”
Nearly two thousand years ago Roman merchants brought spice island products from southern India whence they had been brought by Malay and Indian sailors. At much the same time, Malays with 20-meter ships with outriggers were crossing the southern part of the Indian Ocean, settling the huge island of Madagascar and leaving marks in Africa.”
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3238&Itemid=206
John Chan
@M. Alaya, delusion indeed, Malays are tribal people who never have any meaningful political entity until the White occupied the area. Malays even don’t have their own writing language, their current Arabic written language and English are only available to Malays in the 17th century, and how can they write down anything meaningful in historical term?
It seem the Malays are as desperate as the White to glorify their empty past, they are attempting to use current writing to replace ancient historical documentation. From you racist language, I am saddened for the other races lived in Malaysia, the amount of oppression, racial discrimination and harassment they have been going through.
Definitely UN should investigate Malaysia racial discrimination activities.
M. Alaya
Of course.
Ours is the worst place on earth when it comes to the amount of oppression, racial discrimination and harassment. China is heaven on earth.
We have no history. In fact, we never existed till before you said so. China made the world and China made history.
We are all inferior to the Han Chinese. Just like the white people. And we are racists to boot. The CCP and Chinese Han on the other hand are the most kind, tolerant non-racist people on earth.
Oh, why bother arguing. You really don’t get it don’t you?
Contrarian
Thousand years of history my foot. China had to ask permission from Malay pirates just for Zeng He’s fleet to pass. Mindanao raiders from Sulu regularly pillaged Chinese shores and the Emperor had to pay them off just to ensure peace. Historical claims do not hold ground especially when international law is quite clear. Recto (Reed) bank is well within Philippine territory. It is less than 200 nautical miles away from Palawan. So why is China trying to claim it? What is obvious here is that irredentist moves from China destroys regional peace.
John Chan
On Jun 9, Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung declared the whole South China Sea (the U-shape) is Vietnam’s territory, it was reported in the North America edition of SingTao daily; Vietnam will defend the whole South China Sea at any cost. China only said South China Sea was her core interest, and yet Vietnam claims the whole U-shape a Vietnam’s territory. We must admire Vietnamese guts, Vietnam is more ambitious than anybody in Asia; I wonder what Philippines will do next, or in matter of fact what all other members of ASEAN will do next. Maybe the Vietnamese bloggers can enlighten other bloggers about their opinion on Vietnam Prime Minster’s announcement.
M. Alaya, it seems Malaysia got another tough customer to deal with now. Vietnamese do not talk, they simply shoot and march. Malaysia better ask Cambodia for advice on how to fight the Vietnamese who are famous for ruthless and brutality, because this time no more white people going to fight the war for you. Don’t count on the Australians who will have difficulty to send help like in the 1950s. Alaya stops claiming your fake moral high ground, I just wonder why UN did not sanction Malaysia’s racist national policy.
M. Alaya
Now Vietnam will attack Malaysia and conquer Southeast Asia? Now Vietnam drew the U-shape claim on the entire sea? Wow, your imagination is so wild. Are you on drugs or something?
the southeastasian
Revolution is a good idea from John Chang. Vietnam shold be more democratic in peaceful manner. That is exactly the situation which the current Chinese goverment never want. The ordinary Chinese would never just stay and see what happens in Vietnam. They want the same things. With luck we have a responsible goverment and fewer stereotypes like John Chang there. Otherwise the current Chinese goverment has enough serious problems to pacify this vast multiethnic country. So they have the more important thing (to keep the Integrity of the PRC) to do than bulling and invading their smaller neighboring countries. Vietnam will always stay Vietnam, whichever political system it has. But it is different for the PRC. Maybe we have newer more peace-loving neighbors: Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, The Republic of Quangxi Zhuang, The People’s Republic of Han-China…
What do you think about it, John Chang?
John Chan
@the southeastasian, China is an entity changing through time, sometimes grew and strong, and sometimes shrunk and weak. But for the moment China is growing and getting stronger, China just wants to rise peacefully and protect its ancestor’s sovergnty; any invader encroaching on China’s territories will be evicted. Anybody relaying on the White man’s word to hold on what they are not entitled to is delusional. Otherwise you have to wait for your turn.
China is not like the predicatory imperial West that interferes other nations business non-stop, such as bombing and killing are their joys. China respects other nations as equal, and does not interfere other nations’ internal affairs. Vietnam has its right to develop at its own path. Vietnam is not always Vietnam, which is a French imposed name. Vietnam is Annam 100 years ago, and it has be part of China three times in the history, therefore your creative revisionist history is incorrect.
the southeastasian, you are delusionist, look at the Europe, fragmented and bickering all the time; due to their small nation minds they brought the world two world wars in a short span of time less than 50 years, never in human history such small group of fragmented people has ever brought such disasters to the humanity. Did you ever wonder why did the American kill each other like a mad house instead of letting the Confederation go?
Without China as a stabilizer, the SE Asia will be like Balkans in no time. What an ungrateful bunch of the SEA nations.
M. Alaya
Oh. China is a stabilizer? Southeast Asians should be grateful? Make up your mind, are you here to persuade anyone or just dropped by to insult the rest of the world. Thanks to you, everyone is convinced more than ever about China’s deluded ambitions. Stop taking those drugs. Its messing with your brain.
ThanhPM
“Vietnam is Annam 100 years ago, and it has be part of China three times in the history”
I am just curious. Please tell me how does the Chinese feel about the time China was invaded by the Mongolian? Do this makes China a part of Mongol?
Btw, hi there, China the peace maker, please stay away from our countries, as far as possible, thanks.
John Chan
@M Alaya, yes, you got it right, China is the stabilizer of Asia, in fact for the world too; without China, the West would be bombing and killing in the SE Asia right now for the oil and gas; or the SEA nations are going to blow each other up like Balkans powder keg in no time in order to please their former White masters.
Malaysia better cleans up its act and remove those racist polices an administrative orders, let everybody in Malaysia have equal opportunity for education, employment, and political rights; otherwise UN is going to investigate Malaysia’s human rights records and sanctions Malaysia’s misdeeds.
One thing I didn’t realize is that Malays talk like Indian, are you sure you are a Malay? It is same for the southeastasian, Observer, and Leonard R, making up things as you go, yelling anti-China rhetoric instead of discussion, calling names and dishing out insults when they have nothing to say, never making any meaningful contribution to the debate but inciting hostility, and living in the cloud of cuckoo land instead of facing reality.
Oh well, people never learn, what can you expect from people who do not have history other than their white colonial masters’. One has to go through the knot, so one has to go thru the knot.
M. Alaya
@John Chan, we are just reacting to your kind and sweet little words. You are here trying to represent China aren’t you? Good job I must say.
Yeah, I am racist. In fact, I have stereotypes for all the inferior races out there. Just look at my posts. You are not racist, you are not arrogant, and you are not sick and delusional. Not!
Just hold on to those delusions. You are doing the world us Southeast Asians a great service by revealing your true colors and uniting us against you.
M. Alaya
And your source is a Chinese newspaper??? Snicker. Snicker. Snicker. Now they are the colonialist? The only people who are mindless enough to buy those sources are people like you. You are eating your own propaganda, hook, line and sinker.
Now it is Vietnam is trying to own the whole sea.. How pathetic of you trying to turn ASEAN versus Vietnam. We are capable of diplomacy with each other. And none of us, I’m pretty sure have any ambition of occupying each others legally recognized territory. Your country and you paid CCP propagandists on the other hand are only capable of bullying, misinformation, and intimidation of your own people and the rest of the world. That’s what you’re good at.
And then you’ll call us racist. Geez! Look at the mirror and see who is more racist. Who oppresses more people. Who stifles more freedom of speech. Who keeps more unwilling peoples subjugated. Do you hear that sound? Those are the Tibetans. Uyghurs. Mongols. the Falun Gong. the Christians. the Chinese students, activists, and artists you jailed and massacred for speaking their minds. The hundreds of thousands who died in your cultural revolution and still languishing in jails. Can’t hear their painful cries? That’s a bad sign of inhumanity.
Just enjoy the platitudes from our Prime Minister and the heads of state. He doesn’t mean it – after all, the trade balance is still in our favor. But remember this. We can and we will defend ourselves against you.
As for the white people, why don’t you try actually firing shots…Try attacking Philippine troops. Or ours. Or Vietnam. Then you’ll find out how wrong you are and how many friends your country really have in this world…
the southeastasian
@John Chan: “without China as a stabilizer, the SE Asia will be like Balkans in no time”. We, the Southeastasian, welcome a new era under the rule of the civilized, generous Chinese. “China is not like the predicatory imperial West that interferes other nations business non-stop, such as bombing and killing are their joys. China respects other nations as equal, and does not interfere other nations’ internal affairs”. They offer you, all the Southeastasian countries, a better law and order than the West like this:
The Chinese argue that most entire South China Sea, offshore 80-100 miles to Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia is China’s jurisdictional sea area, because the Chinesen have been fished there for centuries. The fishermen of other countries did the same at the time. Those areas are well located within EEZ (200 miles) of the related countries. Now other contries must respect the Sea Law of Chinese style:
– Any economic activities, e. g. fishing, oil exploration by Vietnameses, Philippines, Indonesians, Malaysians in those area well within their EEZ only with Chinese permission. Without Chinese permission, the Southeastasian face the “civilized” Chinese act, namely shooting, looting on their fishermen or the cable cutting of their survey vessel. Doing so, the Chinese convert the indisputed sea area of those countries to a disputed area.
– But China is a big country and Chineses are generous peoples. They offer you, the smaller countries, a joint development in this “disputed area”, in fact your own sea area according the international Sea Law (UNCLOS), which China has itself ratified.
– For other big countries (USA, Japan, India,..) the Chinese have at this time also appropriate responses. China would do not make any troubles to commercial navigation. But marine ships of other countries should not navigate through the South China Sea in respecting of China’s interests, maybe in 50 years only with Chinese permission.
If Vietnam gives up, the next is Phillipine. By arguing like this China has the right to do the same thing to Malaysia, Indonesia. And why not in Gulf of Thailand?
All to the people in the world, please imagine this scernario: The Chinese fishermen go fishing offshore your country, legally with your permission or not legally. 50 years later, they tell to you: the Chinese fishermen have been there for decades and paint a dashed line 50 miles to your coast. You can do anything 50 miles offshore. Up 50 miles offshore is now a disputed area. But we, Chinese, are civilized, generous and peaceful peoples, offer you a peaceful solution: joint development on your own garden.
That is Chinese character and behavior. Only Greed!
China today feel they ar strong enough and behaves like Hitler-Germany a century before. Thanks WMD a third world war maybe do not happen in Southeastasia. But if the Southeastasians are not united for their common interest, a small war will be not unlikely.
Wave up, all the Southeastasian nations!
John Chan
@M Alaya, you must ask the Malaysia government not to filter out too much from their Malaysian Great Firewall, otherwise you will be behind the ball in internet debate. Vietnam is upgrading their provocation, it is going to conduct live fire exercise on Jun 13 40 miles off Hon Ong Island for 6 hours, and USS Chung-Hoon is leaving Pearl Harbour to Philippines.
I guess you are happy now, some unfortunate soldiers are going to give up their lives for your ego trip.
a_canadian_observer
@John Chan: Let me analyze your name for a moment.
I’m assuming that this John Chan is your real name (i.e., this is not a cloak). People with such name are almost certain to be from Hong Kong, of Cantonese ancestry, and you’re NOT of one Han decendants. People from Canton (Guangdong), Guangxi, Yunnan, Hainan… are not Han people. They used belong to the so-called hundreds Viet tribes, and the whole region has been known as Lingnan. This region was conquered, annexed to China and the people were assimilated by the Han Chinese around the Tang dynasty. So, John Chan, you are turning your back against your ancestors. This is not just a geat sin, it is a shame for your people, when you side with the Han to go against your Viet bretheren.
M. Alaya
@John Chan, Malaysia’s Great Firewall? Me? Did I, a person from a small developing country started this whole affair with an ego-trip? Wow. Everything in your world must be inverted. Whats next? Small ASEAN countries are out to conquer the world?
I really pity you and how the CCP messed with your head. You really should stop taking those Chinese government issued drugs…
Observer
@ John Chan – since you brought up one Wiki link, I will return the favor right back.
China invaded, murdered Vietnam sailors, and stole Paracel Islands from Vietnam at Paracel Islands Battle in 1974 = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands
Chinese ships harashed Vietnamese ships INSIDE Vietnam territory water = http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-09/vietnam-says-chinese-boat-harassed-survey-ship-china-disputes.html
Chinese ships intimidated Philippines people = http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ib7XwVL_60NrptCnn_xrfBU8TljA?docId=CNG.aa68770b225d7af877dab6fbe37c9edb.2b1
Chinese captured poor unarmed fishermen and stole their fishes = http://the-diplomat.com/china-power/2010/09/10/china-fishing-for-outrage/
Shall I go on?
Pinky
Haha! Poor for China! they have 1.3 mils people but only one is trying to protect for China here. :). Justice can never been hiden! Everyone know this. Your Chinese goverment just can lie Chinese. They can not lie whole the world. History can prove that China always are invader. But it is obviously that Chinese never say they are invader. They said that they have responsibility to “take care” for small countries as the role of big country! I am sure that China history book never mention that “China is invader”. Am I right Little John Chan?
ozivan
Everyone got tired of this post and moving on to new ones…then comes Pinky.
Pinky, Pinky…you’re wrong and your view of China is skewed.
This is the 3rd time I have said in comments posted elsewhere in the Diplomat and happy to do it again if need be:
I have for umpteenth years been reading and hearing Western media or TV about how bad China is until I have visited it a number of times. I discovered that Western media has been rubbishing China for the last 30 years even after Deng Xiao Peng has opened up China. Don’t believe ? Please visit China and see for yourself.
John Chan is not the only one speaking out for China as claimed by you.
If 1.3 billion Chinese could read and write English as well as John Chan, Pinky will be drowned by comments by only 1% of them writing in.
By the way, I am Australian.
Guest
The reason for all these territorial disputes is obvious, Vietnam was historically apart of China.
Guest
China should take over Vietnam. Problem solved.
tiger
Good idea “Guest”: Underneath Hanoi itself is full of Chinese bones,of those killed during their wars with Vietnam. Let China take over Vietnam again!
a_canadian_observer
China had tried and failed numerous times in the past. If they want to try it again, let them bring it on.
SriVijaya
Let me put it this way! South East Asia and the Western Half of the South China Sea is the Domain of the Sri Vijaya people of Indonesia till 1300 AD which became Madjapahit Empire in Malaysia, Sultanate of Brunei and in the Philippines became the Lucoes (Luzones) and Sultanate of Sulu before the various European people came to conquer it.
The South Eastern Sea from China have never been under Chinese Domain EVER
SriVijaya
Also the bogus History that China is feeding its people dont even know the Sri Vijaya Empire a Thallocracy ruled South China SEA from Medan all the way to Selurong (Manila) and Champa Kingdom (where Vietnam is now). Sri Vijaya is called Sanfoqi by the Chinese and Sanfotsi by the Arabs.
Michael Tran
Knowing both Chinese and Vietnamese parties are communists, I have to say that their fighting over the sea territory is simply just a fake. why? 1) to distract the internal serious issues like jobs, protests, etc. 2) To make it sound like the whole sea territory belongs to China, hence the name South China Sea, so other countries have no right to get involved. In fact, China has no place in South China Sea.